1957 Gibson J-45 Restoration - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T21:37:56Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/1957-gibson-j45-restoration?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A55493&feed=yes&xn_auth=noYou can go on with your soapb…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:559012011-04-23T20:09:56.552ZJim Bancrofthttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JimBancroft
<p>You can go on with your soapbox philosophy all you want, I just don't agree. </p>
<p>Bottom line with the guitar presented in this thread is, "it does not need a refinish", period. If you refinish it a number of things happen, it may thin the top some and change the tone, reduce its structural stability, and reduce its value. Why would an owner want to reduce the value? Just so it looks better?</p>
<p>I think instrument repair people have the right to refuse or accept a job, dependent upon…</p>
<p>You can go on with your soapbox philosophy all you want, I just don't agree. </p>
<p>Bottom line with the guitar presented in this thread is, "it does not need a refinish", period. If you refinish it a number of things happen, it may thin the top some and change the tone, reduce its structural stability, and reduce its value. Why would an owner want to reduce the value? Just so it looks better?</p>
<p>I think instrument repair people have the right to refuse or accept a job, dependent upon there repair philosophy, and wanting to do the right thing for the instrument.</p>
<p>I don't advocate keeping an instrument all original just for the sake of originality, it needs to do what it's intended to do, play music, and play the best it possibly can. The finish is only to do with appearance, not tone or playability.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jim</p> Nah,Jeff,
As you undoubtedly…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:559002011-04-23T01:03:09.103ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Nah,Jeff,</p>
<p>As you undoubtedly know; it's just the normal cut and thrust, challenge, vilify, reach consensus, kiss and make-up that goes on when you put a bunch of passionate, work loving artisans in the same confined space - in the end I reckon everyone learns and grows from this remarkable forum - definitely a one of a kind place this.</p>
<p>Nah,Jeff,</p>
<p>As you undoubtedly know; it's just the normal cut and thrust, challenge, vilify, reach consensus, kiss and make-up that goes on when you put a bunch of passionate, work loving artisans in the same confined space - in the end I reckon everyone learns and grows from this remarkable forum - definitely a one of a kind place this.</p> I don't particularly like th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:554722011-04-23T00:35:14.842ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p> I don't particularly like the idea of "desirable" instruments going into collections with "value" inflated far beyond the intrinsic but I also can't help but wonder how much of the repair industry is supported on the overflow of that value. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>If this Gibson was only worth a couple of hundred dollars, the chances are that it would not be worth the cost of repair and the general trend would be to toss it and buy another guitar, most likely one that is not too expensive. . As…</p>
<p> I don't particularly like the idea of "desirable" instruments going into collections with "value" inflated far beyond the intrinsic but I also can't help but wonder how much of the repair industry is supported on the overflow of that value. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>If this Gibson was only worth a couple of hundred dollars, the chances are that it would not be worth the cost of repair and the general trend would be to toss it and buy another guitar, most likely one that is not too expensive. . As it stands, there is plenty of chatter on these pages about the issue of cheaply made and sold guitars and how to go about actually making any money from their repair. In the end the value of any given instrument is in the eyes of the buyer and I don't think the instrument repair industry really has much influence on that. From where I sit I think eBay has a more powerful influence on the pricing of guitars than just about any other single source. The listings are divide between those that mostly sell (auctions) and those that mostly don't sell ( buy it now) with the "don't sell" pricing being closer to what is found with concrete vendors. The world is full of people that won't purchase a cell phone without a test drive but will plop down hundreds of dollars on a box of wood on a sellers description and a hand full of pictures. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I guess I would sum up with the thought that I think repairman have an obligation to be square with their clients and that should include their thoughts on the potential increase or decrease in value the instrument may take with a given repair. As I said, the value is really in the eyes of the buyer. </p> i only wanted to do what was…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:555612011-04-23T00:29:41.357ZJeff Perkinshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JeffPerkins
i only wanted to do what was best for the customer, as he's not even a guitar player, just inherited it....go figure...he just wanted my advice on what to do really.
i only wanted to do what was best for the customer, as he's not even a guitar player, just inherited it....go figure...he just wanted my advice on what to do really. Jeez guys...I never meant to…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:555602011-04-23T00:27:03.517ZJeff Perkinshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JeffPerkins
Jeez guys...I never meant to start a war.....
Jeez guys...I never meant to start a war..... Thanks Howard! Some of the mo…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:558992011-04-23T00:20:40.447ZRETRORODhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RETROROD
<p>Thanks Howard! Some of the most reasonable and logical words spoken on this topic! It has definitely gone 'political and crazy' since the original post. Yes, the guitar owner has a right to do... or have done to his guitar what he wishes.</p>
<p> With money on the table....there is usually a 'whore' to take it and do the bidding of the payee. It's human and societal nature!</p>
<p> If not a 'paid whore' he could always 'ass' it up himself. Plenty of 'that' going on in the world too!</p>
<p>Thanks Howard! Some of the most reasonable and logical words spoken on this topic! It has definitely gone 'political and crazy' since the original post. Yes, the guitar owner has a right to do... or have done to his guitar what he wishes.</p>
<p> With money on the table....there is usually a 'whore' to take it and do the bidding of the payee. It's human and societal nature!</p>
<p> If not a 'paid whore' he could always 'ass' it up himself. Plenty of 'that' going on in the world too!</p> Yep, sorry Howard, I am build…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:555592011-04-23T00:13:17.147ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
Yep, sorry Howard, I am building a smaller soapbox as I speak.
Yep, sorry Howard, I am building a smaller soapbox as I speak. Thanks Rob,
Regardless of my…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-23:2177249:Comment:557012011-04-23T00:10:23.312ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Thanks Rob, </p>
<p>Regardless of my previous posts which were just cut and thrust work stuff, I apologize for my lack of grace. I can assure you that you are not alone in your disappointment of the wreckage that the economic rationalists and hyper capitalists have visited upon the working man. The damage and divisiveness that people like Thatcher and her 'winter of discontent' have caused is not reversible - not in my time anyway. </p>
<p>Sadly, your soapbox and my soapbox is as…</p>
<p>Thanks Rob, </p>
<p>Regardless of my previous posts which were just cut and thrust work stuff, I apologize for my lack of grace. I can assure you that you are not alone in your disappointment of the wreckage that the economic rationalists and hyper capitalists have visited upon the working man. The damage and divisiveness that people like Thatcher and her 'winter of discontent' have caused is not reversible - not in my time anyway. </p>
<p>Sadly, your soapbox and my soapbox is as relevant today as it was a hundred years ago - and I note that organized struggle and union solidarity has been a hallmark of the Appalachian miners for about that period - unfortunately, we here will also echo the lament " you don't know what you have till its gone" in due course. No doubt. </p>
<p>In Solidarity Comrade,</p>
<p>Rusty.</p> Rusty, I never saw anyone her…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-22:2177249:Comment:558862011-04-22T17:20:59.089ZHoward Klepperhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HowardKlepper
<p>Rusty, I never saw anyone here say that the repair person ought to dictate to the customer what he should think. No one ever said it isn't the customer's guitar to do with as he pleases. As you have said, the customer is entitled to do what he wants, but he is not entitled to have a particular person do it for him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One of the things that distinguishes a member of a profession from a laborer is that the professional is not simply for hire to do whatever task his or her …</p>
<p>Rusty, I never saw anyone here say that the repair person ought to dictate to the customer what he should think. No one ever said it isn't the customer's guitar to do with as he pleases. As you have said, the customer is entitled to do what he wants, but he is not entitled to have a particular person do it for him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One of the things that distinguishes a member of a profession from a laborer is that the professional is not simply for hire to do whatever task his or her employer directs. A professional undertakes the additional obligation of giving his client the advantage of his expertise and experience by advising the client about what might be in his best interests, and possibly declining to do work that he or she thinks is wrong for practical or moral reasons. I see nothing high-handed or dictatorial about musical instrument repairers acting as professionals.</p> Ah, I've long expected that y…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-04-22:2177249:Comment:554652011-04-22T15:35:46.612ZRob Mercurehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobMercure
<p>Ah, I've long expected that your ancestors arrived on on a prison ship <grin> - that's how the smart ones escaped the industrial revolution in England. Sorry about the old soap box coming out but I'm from the Appalachian Coalfields where the miners were one of the last hold-out as unionism was executed in the USA (Reagan and Thatcher were probably separated at birth) and while coal is very problematic we've been reduced from a high wage/high benefit area (much of the rest of the USA…</p>
<p>Ah, I've long expected that your ancestors arrived on on a prison ship <grin> - that's how the smart ones escaped the industrial revolution in England. Sorry about the old soap box coming out but I'm from the Appalachian Coalfields where the miners were one of the last hold-out as unionism was executed in the USA (Reagan and Thatcher were probably separated at birth) and while coal is very problematic we've been reduced from a high wage/high benefit area (much of the rest of the USA also) to selling prepackaged unneeded prepackaged consumer "junk" for Walmart wages! Dunno if you've got Walmart in Au but I'm sure some other commercial cancer replaces it. It's sort of reverse socialism with more and more concentration of wealth in the paws of the few - and it's hard not to be bitter as one's health fails while the "Reprobates" dump their elephant shit on our heads and hoard more and more of a shrinking pie. Even old Adam Smith lectured about responsibility coming with wealth but some how that part always gets ignored (actually a fairly moral person - although his followers seem to be social cannibals). </p>
<p>Ah, caught me again. But I spent time as a community organizer and environmental "activist" (really never liked that term) and it's hard to be emotionally, culturally, and - especially - financially tied to a "national sacrifice area." An energy and natural resources colony as exotic to most Americans as Australia would be (visiting your country was always one of my dreams that will probably not pass).</p>
<p>OK, I'll shut up and try to behave but I only have to walk or drive a couple of miles to have it rubbed into my face!</p>
<p>With respect. Rob</p>