3 month old headstock repair glue failure - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T13:27:23Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/3-month-old-headstock-repair-glue-failure?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A130167&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=no Young John, I would been som…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-09:2177249:Comment:1301672014-04-09T22:32:57.810ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p> Young John, I would been some pics of what you are talking about. It is not clear to me at all... </p>
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<p> Young John, I would been some pics of what you are talking about. It is not clear to me at all... </p>
<p></p> I sometimes use clear packing…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1301252014-04-06T00:56:30.729ZJohnhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/John631
<p>I sometimes use clear packing tape to get glue into a joint. The idea is that you get a glob of glue on the crack and then try to put the tape on in a way that seals all around the crack and only let's the glue run into the crack when you push on it. It works well for flat surfaces but I've had some luck on headstock's. Kerry the idea for this came from something Al Racketti said to me.</p>
<p>I sometimes use clear packing tape to get glue into a joint. The idea is that you get a glob of glue on the crack and then try to put the tape on in a way that seals all around the crack and only let's the glue run into the crack when you push on it. It works well for flat surfaces but I've had some luck on headstock's. Kerry the idea for this came from something Al Racketti said to me.</p> Hey Kerry, LV has free shipp…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-01:2177249:Comment:1298272014-04-01T02:24:39.388ZCal Maierhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/CalMaier892
<p>Hey Kerry, LV has free shipping for orders over $40. it ends today.</p>
<p>Don't doddle.</p>
<p>Cal</p>
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<p>Hey Kerry, LV has free shipping for orders over $40. it ends today.</p>
<p>Don't doddle.</p>
<p>Cal</p>
<p></p> CRAP!!! There is a delivery…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1297612014-03-31T23:52:44.260ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p> CRAP!!! There is a delivery from Lee Valley sitting on my Ex's table a few blocks from here! It just was delivered this morn!!! </p>
<p> Man, 72 bucks a kit too! That is a lot of cash! </p>
<p>I'll just shut up and order it now... </p>
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<p> CRAP!!! There is a delivery from Lee Valley sitting on my Ex's table a few blocks from here! It just was delivered this morn!!! </p>
<p> Man, 72 bucks a kit too! That is a lot of cash! </p>
<p>I'll just shut up and order it now... </p>
<p></p> The kit frank is talking abou…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1299822014-03-31T15:37:18.871ZAndrewhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Andrew715
The kit frank is talking about is indeed the slow hardener kit - #206. Lee Valley sells it:<br />
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<a href="http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=20016&cat=1,110,42965&ap=1" target="_blank">http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=20016&cat=1,110,42965&ap=1</a>
The kit frank is talking about is indeed the slow hardener kit - #206. Lee Valley sells it:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=20016&cat=1,110,42965&ap=1" target="_blank">http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=20016&cat=1,110,42965&ap=1</a> Frank, there are no West Sys…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1299132014-03-31T15:24:50.302ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p> Frank, there are no West Systems dealers in Prince George, I can order from here in the province, but I need to know exactly what kit to order. Can you help? </p>
<p> Frank, there are no West Systems dealers in Prince George, I can order from here in the province, but I need to know exactly what kit to order. Can you help? </p> Sorry if I wasn't clear - I d…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1297572014-03-31T06:04:37.207ZFrank Fordhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/FrankFord
<p>Sorry if I wasn't clear - I don't try to clear the glue out. My attempt is to build a matrix within the broken area, old glue residue and all. The capillary action of the epoxy or CA should help fill all the voids and the glue will set in and around particles of the old glue. Remember, when you first clamped the break, you squeezed out virtually all the glue mass, so there shouldn't be much in there to impede the introduction of new glue.</p>
<p>Sorry if I wasn't clear - I don't try to clear the glue out. My attempt is to build a matrix within the broken area, old glue residue and all. The capillary action of the epoxy or CA should help fill all the voids and the glue will set in and around particles of the old glue. Remember, when you first clamped the break, you squeezed out virtually all the glue mass, so there shouldn't be much in there to impede the introduction of new glue.</p> Hi Kerry,
That's a standard b…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1299112014-03-31T05:33:28.993ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Kerry,</p>
<p>That's a standard break with plenty of surface area - technically it shouldn't be a problem, anyway, what Frank said. </p>
<p>BTW, I'm just being lazy: - clamp it open a bit and pour in whatever you think (I use a range of hypodermics to get right into the back of the break) - last year it was all HHG....then epoxy, now CA.....they all work if done according to the break type and adherence (sorry) to the glue schedule. Me, I'm just Titebond Original and a bit of CA to…</p>
<p>Hi Kerry,</p>
<p>That's a standard break with plenty of surface area - technically it shouldn't be a problem, anyway, what Frank said. </p>
<p>BTW, I'm just being lazy: - clamp it open a bit and pour in whatever you think (I use a range of hypodermics to get right into the back of the break) - last year it was all HHG....then epoxy, now CA.....they all work if done according to the break type and adherence (sorry) to the glue schedule. Me, I'm just Titebond Original and a bit of CA to wick into the cracks. But in the case of the pre-existing repair I guess West Systems or CA gets the popular vote.</p>
<p>Rusty.</p>
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<p></p> Andrew and David, no it was…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1298212014-03-31T03:21:08.260ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p> Andrew and David, no it was not broken all the way. The headstock veneer was still there, and it was originally a fall that broke the headstock, but certainly was not a fall made the glue joint fail. </p>
<p> Frank, I will carefully think about how to implement what you said here.I am so glad that you responded. I am still wondering how I will be cleaning that glue out though? </p>
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<p> Andrew and David, no it was not broken all the way. The headstock veneer was still there, and it was originally a fall that broke the headstock, but certainly was not a fall made the glue joint fail. </p>
<p> Frank, I will carefully think about how to implement what you said here.I am so glad that you responded. I am still wondering how I will be cleaning that glue out though? </p>
<p></p> Cold flow, accelerated by hea…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-31:2177249:Comment:1299052014-03-31T01:54:08.294ZFrank Fordhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/FrankFord
<p>Cold flow, accelerated by heat, is always a possibility with the white and yellow glues, I think. When it comes to regluing this kind of separation, I don't count on regular wood glue because of the virtual impossibility of cleaning out the old glue to allow for a good clamping without internal gaps. Such gaps require a glue with good cohesive strength, which is lacking in aliphatic, PVA, and hide glues. </p>
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<p>I'd want to get something in there that both sticks like crazy and…</p>
<p>Cold flow, accelerated by heat, is always a possibility with the white and yellow glues, I think. When it comes to regluing this kind of separation, I don't count on regular wood glue because of the virtual impossibility of cleaning out the old glue to allow for a good clamping without internal gaps. Such gaps require a glue with good cohesive strength, which is lacking in aliphatic, PVA, and hide glues. </p>
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<p>I'd want to get something in there that both sticks like crazy and sets rigidly with good cohesive strength, and is also heat resistant. For me, that's cyanoacrylate. Too bad about the mess it tends to make of lacquer! Lately, I've been working with regular paper-gluing rubber cement as a "resist" to coat surrounding areas that might get CA or epoxy squeeze-out. The results have been particularly good with epoxy so far. </p>
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<p>Epoxy can be a good choice in this area because it can penetrate much more deeply than most folks realize. I use the West System, and in tests I've seen it go 1/2" into a tight crack. Trick is to clamp the break open, and start feeding the epoxy in, allowing it to flow slowly and wick downward with the help of gravity. I use the slow hardener (206, I think) and allow about an hour to keep coming back and adding more to the top as it weeps in. Then, I slam the joint closed, wipe the excess off with about a hundred paper towels so there's nothing on the surface.</p>
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<p>After that exercise, I paint on a nice layer of rubber cement around the break, clamp the thing up and allow the squeeze-out to harden on the exterior. When the clamps come off, I use a razor blade to chip the epoxy off without damaging the lacquered surface. Wishful thinking, yes, but it does work - sort of.</p>