Advice for non-luthier, repairing a crack in a maple electric guitar neck - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T15:54:03Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/advice-for-non-luthier-repairing-a-crack-in-a-maple-electric?feed=yes&xn_auth=noAnother great method! Thanks…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-18:2177249:Comment:897252012-06-18T07:40:10.380ZJohn Engströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JohnEngstroem
<p>Another great method! Thanks so much!</p>
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<p>Another great method! Thanks so much!</p>
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<p></p> A plain guitar string is anot…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-17:2177249:Comment:899182012-06-17T23:08:06.384ZThomas Jameshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ThomasJames
<p>A plain guitar string is another good way to get some glue deep into a crack like that.</p>
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<p>A plain guitar string is another good way to get some glue deep into a crack like that.</p>
<p></p> Wonderful advice and instruct…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-17:2177249:Comment:896132012-06-17T12:34:12.934ZJohn Engströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JohnEngstroem
<p>Wonderful advice and instructions.</p>
<p>Huge thanks!</p>
<p>I will clean it up carefully and work it slowly, with a dry run first.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip of using a pallet knife to work glue into cracks.</p>
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<p>I like your idea to redo the screw-holes at the cracked side of the bolt-on joint using wood plugs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip about threaded insert kits for neck installation, I didn't know about them, and found nice ones for under $20.</p>
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<p>Also, thanks for the…</p>
<p>Wonderful advice and instructions.</p>
<p>Huge thanks!</p>
<p>I will clean it up carefully and work it slowly, with a dry run first.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip of using a pallet knife to work glue into cracks.</p>
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<p>I like your idea to redo the screw-holes at the cracked side of the bolt-on joint using wood plugs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip about threaded insert kits for neck installation, I didn't know about them, and found nice ones for under $20.</p>
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<p>Also, thanks for the very good link, which Mark also posted.</p>
<p>Though this is my only Daion, I love the story behind the company. It went from copycat to almost freakishly unique, when the market was flooded with clones. Much of the change of direction and design came from U.S. company Musiconics International (MCI). They didn't end up selling better than the clones, so eventually MCI bailed out. A bit later, the legend says the factory burned down, including all assets.</p>
<p>The guy I bought my spare neck from, in 2005, had owned about 40 Savage necks that had been hanging in his barn since the mid-80s, not far from where I live. He had just sold the last undamaged one the week before I found him. So it's a punk neck but aged in a barn. :)</p>
<p></p> Hi John.
The reason I said wh…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-17:2177249:Comment:898052012-06-17T02:59:49.517ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p>Hi John.</p>
<p>The reason I said white glue (actually yellow woodworkers glue. Titebond II is the industry standard) is because it was most likely the type of glue used when it was built. All your concerns about glues are valid and you may use epoxy or hot hide glue if you wish. It's just working that with Epoxy & HHG, in a repair situation, comes with a learning curve & Titebond doesn't.</p>
<p>To rough-up the headstock crack, spread the crack open about 3/32" using some…</p>
<p>Hi John.</p>
<p>The reason I said white glue (actually yellow woodworkers glue. Titebond II is the industry standard) is because it was most likely the type of glue used when it was built. All your concerns about glues are valid and you may use epoxy or hot hide glue if you wish. It's just working that with Epoxy & HHG, in a repair situation, comes with a learning curve & Titebond doesn't.</p>
<p>To rough-up the headstock crack, spread the crack open about 3/32" using some clamps...very carefully....and use a piece dry piece of 220 glued to a thin piece of stiff cardboard or a popsicle stick or a tongue depressor, etc. You get the idea. You don't have to hit every nook & cranny. Just rough it up a little bit.</p>
<p>Don't forget the Naptha wash. If the crack has been there for 15+ years, there's likely a lot of polish, sweat, gunk & grime in there that needs to be removed. If you skip that step, your entire repair may be compromised as the glue won't bind to dirty surfaces.. </p>
<p>Here's a link to a job almost identical to yours: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHeadstocks/PegheadCrack/pegheadcrack.html" target="_blank">http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHead...</a></p>
<p>Notice that Frank is using a pallet knife to work the glue into the crack.</p>
<p>As for the spare neck, I agree that using steel inserts is the best way (period) for attaching a bolt on neck. Thanks for the good call Mark (: Glue & clamp the crack and when it's dry drill a 5/16" hole to accept a maple plug. Once the plug is glued in and cut flush, you can begin installing the inserts using the instructions that come with them. </p>
<p>Allow all glue joints to completely cure for a minimum of 24 hours.</p>
<p>I think you'll be surprised that neither neck will NOT need touched up. The headstock crack will "fix" itself and the neck heel repair will be covered in the guitar's neck pocket.</p>
<p>BTW: Forgot to tell you before but those Daion guitars from Japan are some VERY cool axes. They're fairly rare too (but not collectible/valuable) so you're fortunate to have one. (:</p>
<p>Best of luck(:</p>
<p></p> When I wrote "without breakin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-16:2177249:Comment:899132012-06-16T20:25:38.382ZJohn Engströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JohnEngstroem
<p>When I wrote "without breaking the headstock binding" I should have said veneer.</p>
<p>Learning..</p>
<p>When I wrote "without breaking the headstock binding" I should have said veneer.</p>
<p>Learning..</p> Wow, that looks like very sim…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-16:2177249:Comment:899112012-06-16T20:05:48.934ZJohn Engströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JohnEngstroem
<p>Wow, that looks like very similar damage indeed, thanks for the link!</p>
<p>Though that looks like a easier finish to repair, it is a good example of finish repair in a similar situation.</p>
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<p>Sorry to hear your verdict on the spare neck damage.</p>
<p>Another positive thing about the spare neck I forgot to mention is it has no fret wear, while the frets on the original are considerably worn (nickel-silver). I guess they are good enough if leveled and polished by a good Luthier…</p>
<p>Wow, that looks like very similar damage indeed, thanks for the link!</p>
<p>Though that looks like a easier finish to repair, it is a good example of finish repair in a similar situation.</p>
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<p>Sorry to hear your verdict on the spare neck damage.</p>
<p>Another positive thing about the spare neck I forgot to mention is it has no fret wear, while the frets on the original are considerably worn (nickel-silver). I guess they are good enough if leveled and polished by a good Luthier though, but that would have been a nice thing to postpone.</p>
<p>Since the full strip and headstock repair job will take so much time, I think I'll still attempt the spare neck repair first. I think I'll take your advice and use a threaded steel insert. Thanks so much.</p>
<p></p> Sounds like good news to me.…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-16:2177249:Comment:897092012-06-16T19:14:30.540ZJohn Engströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JohnEngstroem
<p>Sounds like good news to me. Thanks a lot for your opinion. Your post helps reassure me to plan this operation.</p>
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<p>I don't know how to separate the headstock, to expose that entire scarf joint area, without breaking the headstock binding and possibly more. Therefore I'm not sure how to rough up the surfaces inside such a tight crack. I guess I could try and sand as deep as possible by tugging on the sandpaper. Is there some super thin sanding device for this…</p>
<p>Sounds like good news to me. Thanks a lot for your opinion. Your post helps reassure me to plan this operation.</p>
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<p>I don't know how to separate the headstock, to expose that entire scarf joint area, without breaking the headstock binding and possibly more. Therefore I'm not sure how to rough up the surfaces inside such a tight crack. I guess I could try and sand as deep as possible by tugging on the sandpaper. Is there some super thin sanding device for this purpose?</p>
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<p>Since the finish is poly, I guess I'm refinishing the entire original neck, I can perform the headstock repair, as you described, when it's stripped to make that part easier.</p>
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<p>I'm somewhat surprised you suggest white glue, but I understand how it would probably work in these cases, and I fully trust your advice. I have noted some pitfalls for white glue while studying this; (1) possible warping and weakening if glue joint thickness is uneven, (2) tendency to fail under dynamic stress and (3) it can expand while curing so must be very carefully clamped. These factors don't seem to be a problem in either case here though.</p>
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<p>Do you think hide glue and (suitable) epoxy are more difficult to use than white glue for an inexperienced woodworker like me?</p>
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<p>I have been playing this guitar with damage for 15 years, but it has never been properly cared for, since it was not in the best condition when I got it, and then nearly destroyed by a misinformed teenager (also me) in worse ways than the headstock thing. Time has made this headstock damage look huge and glaring in my eyes. :)</p>
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<p>Based on your opinion that both breaks/cracks are favorable, I'm considering repairing the spare neck first, and switching to that, to get the shiny headstock joint back right away.</p>
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<p>After further repairing the headstock damage as you describe, refinishing the neck becomes less urgent and can be done with the greatest care.</p>
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<p>PS. I am inspired and have sanded the body, which is now ready for refinish and new electronics.</p>
<p>The body wood has three pieces and no grain matching so the refinish will be opaque, like the original.</p>
<p>The original cream white is no more, it wants a premium orange guitar finish. ;)</p>
<p></p> Paul is steering you right. I…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-16:2177249:Comment:897962012-06-16T18:37:09.721ZMark Pollockhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MarkPollock
<p>Paul is steering you right. I'll just throw in a couple thoughts here -</p>
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<p>Remember to try a couple of dry test runs with whatever you are going to do before you actually add glue.</p>
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<p>Otherwise, yes, glue, and don't forget to use some wax paper to keep things from sticking. From Frank's excellent Frets.com site -…</p>
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<p>Paul is steering you right. I'll just throw in a couple thoughts here -</p>
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<p>Remember to try a couple of dry test runs with whatever you are going to do before you actually add glue.</p>
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<p>Otherwise, yes, glue, and don't forget to use some wax paper to keep things from sticking. From Frank's excellent Frets.com site -</p>
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<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHeadstocks/PegheadCrack/pegheadcrack.html" target="_blank">http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/Broken...</a></p>
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<p>On the spare neck, I really don't like the look of that split. It will get wedged open every time the neck is bolted on. You would probably need to drill it out and put in something else - a threaded steel insert might be best. Or a phenolic rod.</p> Great photos John.
The follow…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-16:2177249:Comment:896062012-06-16T17:27:52.772ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p>Great photos John.</p>
<p>The following is 'my opinion' based on the supplied photos.</p>
<p>The original neck: The break/crack seems to be right on the scarf joint. I would simply clean the exposed wood with Naptha, rough-up the surfaces w/220 paper, glue (with white glue) & clamp. The white glue squeeze-out can be cleaned with a cloth dampened with very warm water & no touch-up should be required.</p>
<p>The spare neck: same thing.</p>
<p>I would not use splines or support dowels…</p>
<p>Great photos John.</p>
<p>The following is 'my opinion' based on the supplied photos.</p>
<p>The original neck: The break/crack seems to be right on the scarf joint. I would simply clean the exposed wood with Naptha, rough-up the surfaces w/220 paper, glue (with white glue) & clamp. The white glue squeeze-out can be cleaned with a cloth dampened with very warm water & no touch-up should be required.</p>
<p>The spare neck: same thing.</p>
<p>I would not use splines or support dowels in both repair scenarios.</p>
<p>If a neck is going to crack, yours have cracked in the best ways possible to affect invisible & appropriate repairs.</p>
<p>There's a tendency to over-think these simple repairs. Keep it simple, proceed slowly and you'll have both necks 'service ready' in no time.</p>
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<p>Best of luck(-:</p> Here are full shots of the ne…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-06-16:2177249:Comment:897022012-06-16T10:06:10.053ZJohn Engströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JohnEngstroem
<p>Here are full shots of the necks.</p>
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<p>Here are full shots of the necks.</p>
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