archtop guitar center seam separation - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T10:33:07Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/archtop-guitar-center-seam-separation?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A85405&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI have no experience in splin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-06:2177249:Comment:854052012-03-06T19:40:45.835ZJeff Highlandhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JeffHighland
<p>I have no experience in splinting yet, the climate here is pretty good for instruments.</p>
<p>I'd be doing it like Ned suggests with a wedge shape. If you cant do it in one length , perhaps make the joint under the bridge.</p>
<p>I have no experience in splinting yet, the climate here is pretty good for instruments.</p>
<p>I'd be doing it like Ned suggests with a wedge shape. If you cant do it in one length , perhaps make the joint under the bridge.</p> Hi Jeff, thanks for taking th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-06:2177249:Comment:852552012-03-06T17:47:29.830ZErnie Miciakhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ErnieMiciak
<p>Hi Jeff, thanks for taking the time to respond to mty dilemma. I have to agree, I think the opening is too wide and it will just split again. I asked an old violin restorer friend of mine about his approach to humidification of a shop full of high end instruments and he tended to shrug it off saying that most of these instruments had acclimatized to our prairie conditions and that no matter what you do you'll end up doing some regluing.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on making the split a…</p>
<p>Hi Jeff, thanks for taking the time to respond to mty dilemma. I have to agree, I think the opening is too wide and it will just split again. I asked an old violin restorer friend of mine about his approach to humidification of a shop full of high end instruments and he tended to shrug it off saying that most of these instruments had acclimatized to our prairie conditions and that no matter what you do you'll end up doing some regluing.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on making the split a uniform width? </p> Thanks for the compliment Ned…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-06:2177249:Comment:853242012-03-06T17:35:46.511ZErnie Miciakhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ErnieMiciak
<p>Thanks for the compliment Ned; sent along a pic of what she looked like all dresed up for town. Took best in show over some awesome jams and jellies!</p>
<p>I think the rehydrating advice is great but I think I would have to agree with Jeff. IF I could get the seam to close it would be only at high humidty so would have to keep it high for the life of the guitar. I'm hoping it will be around long after me and can't expect the next owner(s) to maintain it. Here on the prairies we spend a…</p>
<p>Thanks for the compliment Ned; sent along a pic of what she looked like all dresed up for town. Took best in show over some awesome jams and jellies!</p>
<p>I think the rehydrating advice is great but I think I would have to agree with Jeff. IF I could get the seam to close it would be only at high humidty so would have to keep it high for the life of the guitar. I'm hoping it will be around long after me and can't expect the next owner(s) to maintain it. Here on the prairies we spend a lot more time at 30% rh or less than we do at 50%.</p>
<p>I share your concern for the condition of the bracing but taking the back off...what with wood bindings and all...I have a fiber optic scope from an old horse vet that I'm going to try taking a peek inside if I get a chance this afternoon. The sitka only split a small amount over the x leaving a ragged wood grain which I interpret as the titebond holding at least in that area so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.</p>
<p>Your description of splinting the top is excellent. Would you first make the crack a uniform width with a Sloan knife (if thats what its called)? I've read about the technique but not sure whether these tools are still available. Have seen the power knife in my Stew-Mac cataloque but would ned to buy the whole Foredom outfit and I'm much more comfortable with hand tools. e</p>
<p> </p> Before I forget, That's a nic…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-06:2177249:Comment:854892012-03-06T02:14:06.035ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Before I forget, That's a nice looking guitar, Ernie. </p>
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<p> Bill's method for hydration should work fine. I prefer to keep the instrument in the case, laying down with a ziplock baggy to hold the sponges. On Archtops, I usually make up a wire hanger then poke some holes in the top half of the bag, above the level of the sponge. This keeps the bags where I can easily get to them but still places them inside of the guitar's body. I use a big syringe to fill the sponges after I…</p>
<p>Before I forget, That's a nice looking guitar, Ernie. </p>
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<p> Bill's method for hydration should work fine. I prefer to keep the instrument in the case, laying down with a ziplock baggy to hold the sponges. On Archtops, I usually make up a wire hanger then poke some holes in the top half of the bag, above the level of the sponge. This keeps the bags where I can easily get to them but still places them inside of the guitar's body. I use a big syringe to fill the sponges after I get them inside of the guitar and only open the case to refill the sponges. It's can be a trial of patience to get an instrument re-hydrated but it usually pays off.</p>
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<p> I use hot hide glue for most things but I might use titebond again if I was sure I could get it clean enough to insure it would hold. I've read that D'Angelico's seem to be prone to this problem too and you should probably formulate a plan to install some cross grain support once it's repaired. </p>
<p> With that in mind, once you are ready to make your repair, you might want to consider removing the back to work inside of the guitar. One of my concerns with a gap this wide is that you have compromised the top's attachment to the X brace too. If you used the same glue for the braces you need to double check that they are not suffering glue failure. Opening the guitar would allow you to check that the bracing is tight as well as give you easy access to the repair to install some support for the joint. </p>
<p> In my opinion, splinting a crack on a flat top is much easier than on a archtop. The curvature of the top can be a problem but if the body is open you can make a splint that is as wide as you need to fill the crack but much deeper so you can insert it into the crack then remove the excess material once it is dry. On a crack that is potentially this long, I would do it several pieces over the length of the body, all from the same length of spruce. In other words, I don't think you need to make a single splint that is the length of the crack AND the depth of the arch, Just one that is the total length of the crack which can be cut to different lengths and fit into the crack. ( remember that the arch may require some angle cuts on the ends of the splints if they are fitted in this way.</p>
<p> If you need to splint the top I think it is best to bevel the crack and then bevel the sides of the splint. In this case it may stand proud of the top on both sides but it can be pared close to the top and scrapped level with the surfaces. I have used both a small tapered triangular file and a small "V" chisel. I have had some cracks that dragging one corner of the file seem to work best but over all both worked fine. Just don't make the vee so deep that you are actually widening the crack.</p>
<p> Anyway, right now you are at the stage where I spend a lot of time looking and thinking. As the original builder, you have an advantage in determining how to proceed.. </p>
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<p></p> I'm going to dissent from the…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-05:2177249:Comment:854872012-03-05T23:11:08.222ZJeff Highlandhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JeffHighland
<p>I'm going to dissent from the rest of the guys</p>
<p>IMHO that crack is an indication that the top was glued to the rim at too high a humidity level. Subsequent drying led it to shrink while being restrained by the the rims and opened up the crack.</p>
<p>If you superhumidify it now and manage to close and glue the crack, It's just a timebomb waiting to fail again when it gets back to normal humidity levels.</p>
<p>I'd be splinting the crack at low RH</p>
<p>I'm going to dissent from the rest of the guys</p>
<p>IMHO that crack is an indication that the top was glued to the rim at too high a humidity level. Subsequent drying led it to shrink while being restrained by the the rims and opened up the crack.</p>
<p>If you superhumidify it now and manage to close and glue the crack, It's just a timebomb waiting to fail again when it gets back to normal humidity levels.</p>
<p>I'd be splinting the crack at low RH</p> Ok, I'll get back to you and…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-05:2177249:Comment:853202012-03-05T16:14:09.606ZErnie Miciakhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ErnieMiciak
<p>Ok, I'll get back to you and let you know how it goes. e</p>
<p>Ok, I'll get back to you and let you know how it goes. e</p> I would not think so as the …tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-05:2177249:Comment:853122012-03-05T01:17:23.258ZWilliam F.Edenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/WilliamFEden
<p>I would not think so as the Lacquer finish should protect that part of it. Put the water bag in the center between the F. holes. Just keep an eye on it as it should take less time using the hot water .Bill................</p>
<p>I would not think so as the Lacquer finish should protect that part of it. Put the water bag in the center between the F. holes. Just keep an eye on it as it should take less time using the hot water .Bill................</p> Thanks again Bill, any proble…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-04:2177249:Comment:851792012-03-04T23:10:46.381ZErnie Miciakhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ErnieMiciak
<p>Thanks again Bill, any problems you can forsee using this technique on a guitar with wood (maple, walnut) bindings?</p>
<p>Thanks again Bill, any problems you can forsee using this technique on a guitar with wood (maple, walnut) bindings?</p> I am sorry I thought every…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-04:2177249:Comment:852462012-03-04T22:58:59.941ZWilliam F.Edenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/WilliamFEden
<p> I am sorry I thought every one new about the Garbage bag trick .You get a larg G.B and put the guitar in along with a small plastic bag with a wet rag inside the small bag leave the sm. bag open.I try and use hot water if I am in a bit of a hurry and change the water every day. In your case because it is an arch top I would suspend it up off the bottom of the bag with two blocks face down and put the wet bag in under it and close the bag up tite.I hope this is of some help to you. And I…</p>
<p> I am sorry I thought every one new about the Garbage bag trick .You get a larg G.B and put the guitar in along with a small plastic bag with a wet rag inside the small bag leave the sm. bag open.I try and use hot water if I am in a bit of a hurry and change the water every day. In your case because it is an arch top I would suspend it up off the bottom of the bag with two blocks face down and put the wet bag in under it and close the bag up tite.I hope this is of some help to you. And I would use Sp. glue for the glue. P.S. others may have a different way but this is my way and it works for me .Good luck on your project Bill............</p> Thanks for the reply William.…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-04:2177249:Comment:852422012-03-04T19:37:07.354ZErnie Miciakhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ErnieMiciak
<p>Thanks for the reply William. What a great site. For us in the boonies its a real boon. I haven't heard of this garbage bag trick, could you expand on it a little?</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply William. What a great site. For us in the boonies its a real boon. I haven't heard of this garbage bag trick, could you expand on it a little?</p>