Clarification on a few Gibson tendencies - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T15:47:03Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/clarification-on-a-few-gibson-tendencies?feed=yes&xn_auth=nobump to the top... tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-10:2177249:Comment:1303312014-04-10T05:57:27.458ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p>bump to the top... </p>
<p>bump to the top... </p> Paul said "VASTLY OVERPRICED…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1302182014-04-06T18:55:17.370ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Paul said "<span>VASTLY OVERPRICED lovely looking objects of bullshit value"</span></p>
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<p><span>Maybe we could call it VOLLOOBV for short!</span></p>
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<p><span>Plus one to all that Paul said - another spot-on post in my view.</span></p>
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<p><span>I always get a kick out of the fret work too seeing just how poorly one can apply a PLEK machine to a production </span>environment.... Not only do the crowns suck but they won't even run the machine with enough iterations to…</p>
<p>Paul said "<span>VASTLY OVERPRICED lovely looking objects of bullshit value"</span></p>
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<p><span>Maybe we could call it VOLLOOBV for short!</span></p>
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<p><span>Plus one to all that Paul said - another spot-on post in my view.</span></p>
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<p><span>I always get a kick out of the fret work too seeing just how poorly one can apply a PLEK machine to a production </span>environment.... Not only do the crowns suck but they won't even run the machine with enough iterations to smooth out the rather obvious lines in the frets spanning the neck....</p>
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<p>Maybe ole Henry should spend a little less time in the famous words of Tony Soprano's Mom playing "Oh poor me....." and even less time ravaging the protected forests of Madagascar exploiting the endangered and taking advantage of local conflict all for personal profit....</p>
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<p>The oped piece that he wrote (was that really him or did he outsource that to ASIA too...) in the WSJ claiming that he got busted because of his politics and that the Obama administration stays up late at night every night plotting and scheming just how to get Him smacked of paranoia as well as the ego that Paul rightly mentioned.</p>
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<p>Henry = Nugent with a Harvard MBA.....</p>
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<p>We have seen one decent new Gibson in the last several years AND this one still needed several hours of work to get it set-up and playing as it should. It was also a reissue LP, $6,000.00... and after all was said and done did play and sound as well as a $2,000.00 guitar might. Such a deal...</p>
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<p>Hopefully the minimum wage gets raised if for no other reason then to give Henry palpitations..... ;)</p>
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<p></p> I think it was Tim O'Brien wh…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1302142014-04-06T17:15:33.119ZLARRY KLOSEhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/LARRYKLOSE
<p>I think it was Tim O'Brien who said "a Gibson is only good enough." I had a '62 J-50 with the plastic bridge, the ceramic saddle and the huge, thick, molded, tone killing plastic pick guard. Over the years I had the bridge replaced twice (the first guy blew the job), loose braces re-glued top and back, and a thin, well-made replacement pick guard. All this improved the tone quality but it never was very loud and had very little cut in a group. Probably would have been a good recording…</p>
<p>I think it was Tim O'Brien who said "a Gibson is only good enough." I had a '62 J-50 with the plastic bridge, the ceramic saddle and the huge, thick, molded, tone killing plastic pick guard. Over the years I had the bridge replaced twice (the first guy blew the job), loose braces re-glued top and back, and a thin, well-made replacement pick guard. All this improved the tone quality but it never was very loud and had very little cut in a group. Probably would have been a good recording guitar but I was playing in groups where I needed it to be heard. I only took as long as I did to sell it because I had an emotional attachment--it was my first (not-so) good guitar.</p>
<p>If only I had found one of those then relatively cheap Loar mandolins instead of the guitar, I might have a better opinion. </p>
<p>Their rare good stuff had and has more to do with the integrity of the individual responsible employees than it does with any devotion to quality as a corporate value.</p>
<p>A prominent dealer told me a few years ago that he stopped selling new Gibson's because they were in it only for the money and required stocking of too much junk to make their relatively rare good stuff worth having. </p>
<p>C'est la vie!</p>
<p>Larry</p> Paul Quote BTW: I can't count…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1300662014-04-06T15:06:04.280ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p>Paul Quote BTW: I can't count the times on this forum where someone starts a post with "I'm having a problem with my new Gibson...." and I have restrained myself from posting: "Well, the problem is entirely based upon the fact that you bought a new Gibson.". ")</p>
<p> There was a recent one from last year here on the Forum that everyone here will remember. The gent who wanted to put some kind of a stick on plastic sheet on the back of his Bran' new Les Paul to protect it from…</p>
<p>Paul Quote BTW: I can't count the times on this forum where someone starts a post with "I'm having a problem with my new Gibson...." and I have restrained myself from posting: "Well, the problem is entirely based upon the fact that you bought a new Gibson.". ")</p>
<p> There was a recent one from last year here on the Forum that everyone here will remember. The gent who wanted to put some kind of a stick on plastic sheet on the back of his Bran' new Les Paul to protect it from scratches/buckle rash... .</p>
<p>He was quite unhappy with what we posted back, but understood by the end of the thread I think.</p>
<p> This Forum is not here to make friends with folks and socialize, ( although the friendliness of this Forum makes many of us hang out a bit everyday) , it's here to help new folks answer Luthierie questions.</p>
<p>On the opposite note, it's also not an 'old boys club' either as we have in the past been accused of.</p>
<p>We seem to be here to both help newer folks with questions about their projects, and to talk amongst ourselves about how to tackle 'new to us' questions on the big/odd/weird/untackled/puzzling stuff that that the BigBoys here have already figured out. </p> FWIW:
https://www.youtube.com…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1301292014-04-06T12:57:07.564ZThomas Jameshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ThomasJames
<p>FWIW:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU1R4KDymw" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU1R4KDymw</a></p>
<p>FWIW:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU1R4KDymw" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU1R4KDymw</a></p> Yikes, not much love for mode…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1299782014-04-06T11:53:25.735Znathan clarkhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/nathanclark
<p>Yikes, not much love for modern Gibsons here!</p>
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<p>Now don't go romanticizing, they have always made some pretty oddball and or poorly executed instruments, but also some pretty awesome ones. </p>
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<p>The great thing about this company historically is their willingness to change and try new ideas: adjustable truss rods, the F-5 mandolin!, the L-00 body shape, flat tops with small top radii (pre-war J-45 anyone?), The Les Paul model, P90's, PAF's, tunomatic bridges/stop…</p>
<p>Yikes, not much love for modern Gibsons here!</p>
<p></p>
<p>Now don't go romanticizing, they have always made some pretty oddball and or poorly executed instruments, but also some pretty awesome ones. </p>
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<p>The great thing about this company historically is their willingness to change and try new ideas: adjustable truss rods, the F-5 mandolin!, the L-00 body shape, flat tops with small top radii (pre-war J-45 anyone?), The Les Paul model, P90's, PAF's, tunomatic bridges/stop tailpieces, binding nibs etc...</p>
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<p>On the other hand, the bad thing about this company historically is their willingness to change and try new ideas: plastic flat top bridges, screw-driver adjustable acoustic ceramic saddles, the mustache bridge, tiny frets on electric guitars, kerfed tone bars!!!, at least 3 different acoustic neck joints in a 10 year period, the POS wire-retainer less abr-1 that I recently replaced on a new ES-335, double X-bracing, thick and huge bridge plates, inconsistent fret-work and binding nibs etc...</p>
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<p>One thing about Gibson has remained consistent, their inconsistent quality control. As I type this, I am looking at a mid 60's B-25 that had the bridge plate glued too far forward in the factory, the pin holes are in the spruce!</p>
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<p>It's a corporation that exists to make money. As such, their products are built to a standard that's profitable for them. That could mean unacceptable fretwork on some of their brand new guitars (low end and high end), some factory worker gluing a shim to the end grain of an overset neck on a 60's hummingbird or bandsaw and toothed plane blade marks inside a pre-war Gibson flat top.</p>
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<p>After all, only a Gibson is good enough!</p> Things are bit wacky at the f…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1302072014-04-06T02:22:02.445ZThomas Jameshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ThomasJames
<p>Things are bit wacky at the factory as noted. Some of their offerings and pricing points baffle me. The last good deal I got from Gibson was a 2007 Les Paul "Standard Faded" I think it was $1700. I replaced the pickups as a personal preference, and it is fantastic sounding and playing guitar. I have owned a lot of LPs. Maybe I got lucky? It does have the 'weight relieved' Swiss cheese holes in the mahogany - and that seems to make a huge difference in comfort and tone. Tone being the…</p>
<p>Things are bit wacky at the factory as noted. Some of their offerings and pricing points baffle me. The last good deal I got from Gibson was a 2007 Les Paul "Standard Faded" I think it was $1700. I replaced the pickups as a personal preference, and it is fantastic sounding and playing guitar. I have owned a lot of LPs. Maybe I got lucky? It does have the 'weight relieved' Swiss cheese holes in the mahogany - and that seems to make a huge difference in comfort and tone. Tone being the infinitely debatable topic, but this one delivers for me.</p> Well said.tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1300612014-04-06T01:53:26.973ZIan Penderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/IanPender
Well said.
Well said. Hi Brian,
Depending on who ma…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1302042014-04-06T01:31:49.311ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Brian,</p>
<p>Depending on who makes the Tunamatics - Schaller, Tonepros (Japanese Gotoh originally, then Korean (I recall) - great bridges but all over the shop as they changed where they were built) and then every other manufacturer under the sun. </p>
<p>Some adjustments are from the pickup side, some from the stoptail side - the modern Tonepros don't require (generally) the saddles to be reversed as they have a good intonation range - same goes for modern Gotoh, whereas, the crap…</p>
<p>Hi Brian,</p>
<p>Depending on who makes the Tunamatics - Schaller, Tonepros (Japanese Gotoh originally, then Korean (I recall) - great bridges but all over the shop as they changed where they were built) and then every other manufacturer under the sun. </p>
<p>Some adjustments are from the pickup side, some from the stoptail side - the modern Tonepros don't require (generally) the saddles to be reversed as they have a good intonation range - same goes for modern Gotoh, whereas, the crap ABR-1 Style with it's wire retainer, loose saddles and limited intonation range has more problems than Speed Gordon (or Flash Gordon as he is titled in the USA). </p>
<p>So the good thing is there are so many permutations that it's basically a case of doing what the guitar wants you to do regards intonation, saddle orientation and adjustment access.</p>
<p>I note the thread has also sprung the lid on the quality and performance issues with Gibsons these days. Some of us cannot comment emphatically for a number of reasons but I lament any brand that has done so much for our musical heritage and was, in the past, such a giant in the tone stakes (particularly for the places it took classic Rock) being subject to such cruel embarrassment as is the present manufacturing/pricing iteration. </p>
<p>The old Gibson LP'S, Juniors and TV's were the inspirations for my own guitars and to replicate their sound has been a goal for many aspirational makers and builders. However, like girlfriends and cars from younger days that looked so good and went so well I prefer to remember the Gibsons as they were rather than as they are now now.</p>
<p>That's as nice as I can get.</p>
<p>Rusty. </p>
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<p></p> Not to mention the total absu…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-04-06:2177249:Comment:1302022014-04-06T01:07:29.693ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p>Not to mention the total absurdity of finding a plastic/nylon/synthetic nut on a $5000+ instrument. If there's a silver lining, their nuts are #1 on the "that HAS to be replaced" list.</p>
<p>I agree with Kerry's assessment of the Custom Shop's quality. Now if they'd only correct their sticky lacquer formula, those would be acceptable guitars.</p>
<p>But the question remains: why spend $4K on a Custom Shop LP Special when a luthier can provide you a much better high quality guitar of the…</p>
<p>Not to mention the total absurdity of finding a plastic/nylon/synthetic nut on a $5000+ instrument. If there's a silver lining, their nuts are #1 on the "that HAS to be replaced" list.</p>
<p>I agree with Kerry's assessment of the Custom Shop's quality. Now if they'd only correct their sticky lacquer formula, those would be acceptable guitars.</p>
<p>But the question remains: why spend $4K on a Custom Shop LP Special when a luthier can provide you a much better high quality guitar of the same design with YOUR preference of neck shape, selection and quality of timbers, hardware, fret wire, etc., for 3/4ths of that? The answer? The power of brand loyalty and advertizing.</p>
<p>It's a true tragedy.</p>
<p>BTW: I can't count the times on this forum where someone starts a post with "I'm having a problem with my new Gibson...." and I have restrained myself from posting: "Well, the problem is entirely based upon the fact that you bought a new Gibson.". ;)</p>