Gibson back removal - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T15:57:55Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/gibson-back-removal?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A168816&feed=yes&xn_auth=noFortunately I made a template…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-21:2177249:Comment:1686572017-04-21T00:04:08.705ZDoug Cannonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DouglasCannon
<p>Fortunately I made a template out of 1" mdf and fit it on the body snugly before I removed the back. I've notched the perimeter of the template every three inches to allow for the spool clamps to go through. This allows me to leave the template on the guitar until after the glue has set and hopefully the back will behave. I've got a lot of work to do on the bracing and bridge areas.</p>
<p>Thanks for heads up, Mike....I know that thin wood has a mind of its own.</p>
<p>Fortunately I made a template out of 1" mdf and fit it on the body snugly before I removed the back. I've notched the perimeter of the template every three inches to allow for the spool clamps to go through. This allows me to leave the template on the guitar until after the glue has set and hopefully the back will behave. I've got a lot of work to do on the bracing and bridge areas.</p>
<p>Thanks for heads up, Mike....I know that thin wood has a mind of its own.</p> Yes, Mike has a very good poi…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-20:2177249:Comment:1687142017-04-20T20:39:26.758ZDave Richardhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DaveRichard983
<p>Yes, Mike has a very good point. For myself, I made some of the L-shaped alignment brackets, described by Frank Ford, used to adjust the alignment of the sides to the back(he describes using them to realign the distended sides of a teens Gibson mandolin). My brackets have repeatedly useful in these situations.</p>
<p>Yes, Mike has a very good point. For myself, I made some of the L-shaped alignment brackets, described by Frank Ford, used to adjust the alignment of the sides to the back(he describes using them to realign the distended sides of a teens Gibson mandolin). My brackets have repeatedly useful in these situations.</p> My two-cents would be to keep…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-20:2177249:Comment:1686532017-04-20T19:51:37.903ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>My two-cents would be to keep the back off for as short of a time as possible. The sides, over time, will lose their "memory" for the back and shift-around slightly and not noticeably... UNTIL it's time for the back to be reglued and then there's hell to pay with alignment :) </p>
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<p>PS: yes, I discovered this the hard way!</p>
<p>My two-cents would be to keep the back off for as short of a time as possible. The sides, over time, will lose their "memory" for the back and shift-around slightly and not noticeably... UNTIL it's time for the back to be reglued and then there's hell to pay with alignment :) </p>
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<p>PS: yes, I discovered this the hard way!</p> Thanks Dave, I totally agree.…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-19:2177249:Comment:1687132017-04-19T21:45:00.191ZDoug Cannonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DouglasCannon
<p>Thanks Dave, I totally agree. Ren Ferguson took over Gibson's acoustic division in Montana back in the eighties and, more or less, resurrected them. He went down the line, one by one, analyzing all of the guitar specs and in many cases returning the bracing patterns back to their "heyday." He even got to examine and document John Lennon's 160E so that they could produce a faithful reissue. I don't know if they did this for the Hummingbird, but I happen to know him through a friend and can…</p>
<p>Thanks Dave, I totally agree. Ren Ferguson took over Gibson's acoustic division in Montana back in the eighties and, more or less, resurrected them. He went down the line, one by one, analyzing all of the guitar specs and in many cases returning the bracing patterns back to their "heyday." He even got to examine and document John Lennon's 160E so that they could produce a faithful reissue. I don't know if they did this for the Hummingbird, but I happen to know him through a friend and can find out. Everything about this guitar is technically sound (except for the chewed up spruce under the bridge....awaiting some attention very soon. The bracing, as you can tell in the picture above is a bit overdone. I want to improve the sound, if possible, and let the animal resonate a little more. Nice spruce, clean mahogany, and very straight maple neck....no surprises there. </p> It is very, very helpful, IME…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-19:2177249:Comment:1688212017-04-19T15:36:44.410ZDave Richardhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DaveRichard983
<p>It is very, very helpful, IME, to examine 'hands on' the guitar in question, i.e. a early 60's 'Bird. With mirrors and lights, look closely at and measure(as far as possible) the bracing dimensions, positions and angles of the various braces. Gibson changed their bracing, in subtle(and obvious!) ways, through the late 50's, early 60's, and late '60s(not to mention the periods before 1955, and (gulp) after about '67, and once Norlin took over.</p>
<p>A friend has a pristine '64 'Bird, which…</p>
<p>It is very, very helpful, IME, to examine 'hands on' the guitar in question, i.e. a early 60's 'Bird. With mirrors and lights, look closely at and measure(as far as possible) the bracing dimensions, positions and angles of the various braces. Gibson changed their bracing, in subtle(and obvious!) ways, through the late 50's, early 60's, and late '60s(not to mention the periods before 1955, and (gulp) after about '67, and once Norlin took over.</p>
<p>A friend has a pristine '64 'Bird, which I've played and examined many times. It's worth having a look at one, if you'd like to capture that distinctive sound(and with the back off, you could really do it).</p> Thanks so much, Dave!
I saw t…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-19:2177249:Comment:1686462017-04-19T14:47:50.765ZDoug Cannonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DouglasCannon
<p>Thanks so much, Dave!</p>
<p>I saw this last night and even found a bracing pattern for a 60"s Bird and pictures that corroborate it.....It seems that the only major differences are the two extra side braces at the top (free of the kerfing) and the bottom large "X" would need to be replaced by two diagonal main braces....Even the Gibson forums are not very forgiving about the Norlin era "X" bracing and maintain that this was cost saving implementation to eliminate warrantee repairs...in…</p>
<p>Thanks so much, Dave!</p>
<p>I saw this last night and even found a bracing pattern for a 60"s Bird and pictures that corroborate it.....It seems that the only major differences are the two extra side braces at the top (free of the kerfing) and the bottom large "X" would need to be replaced by two diagonal main braces....Even the Gibson forums are not very forgiving about the Norlin era "X" bracing and maintain that this was cost saving implementation to eliminate warrantee repairs...in other words, build it like a tank and you'll never see it again once it leaves the factory.</p> On the UMGF(Unoffficial Marti…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-19:2177249:Comment:1686452017-04-19T12:25:18.466ZDave Richardhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DaveRichard983
<p>On the UMGF(Unoffficial Martin Guitar Forum), there is a 'Library of Gibson Bracing', a collection of photo postings of...vintage Gibson bracing. I can't remember if there is actually a 'Bird', but there are examples of late '50's/early '60's Gibsons. Other square shouldered models)models(SJ, Dove, or their Epi counterparts(Frontier, etc) would have the same bracing, if you can find one to examine. Gibson pioneered their square shouldered line with the production of square shouldered Epis…</p>
<p>On the UMGF(Unoffficial Martin Guitar Forum), there is a 'Library of Gibson Bracing', a collection of photo postings of...vintage Gibson bracing. I can't remember if there is actually a 'Bird', but there are examples of late '50's/early '60's Gibsons. Other square shouldered models)models(SJ, Dove, or their Epi counterparts(Frontier, etc) would have the same bracing, if you can find one to examine. Gibson pioneered their square shouldered line with the production of square shouldered Epis in '58, predating the 'Bird.</p> Removed the back off of the H…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-19:2177249:Comment:1688162017-04-19T02:51:13.251ZDoug Cannonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DouglasCannon
<p>Removed the back off of the Hummingbird today....I am really glad that I chose to do this. There is absolutely no way that I would have found or been able to repair what needs to be done through the sound hole. Repairs that were done in the past compounded many of the issues, not to mention over eight different bracing failures in the double X-bracing and two bridge plates ( the original was maple and the second (glued on top of #1) was 3 ply maple plywood. Someone tried to repair one of…</p>
<p>Removed the back off of the Hummingbird today....I am really glad that I chose to do this. There is absolutely no way that I would have found or been able to repair what needs to be done through the sound hole. Repairs that were done in the past compounded many of the issues, not to mention over eight different bracing failures in the double X-bracing and two bridge plates ( the original was maple and the second (glued on top of #1) was 3 ply maple plywood. Someone tried to repair one of the main diagonal braces by literally slathering wood glue (PVA) on it....it didn't hold....Needless to say, there is a laundry list of things that I need to do before buttoning it up again and I'm really excited by having open access to work on them. I'll post a couple of pictures and start re-laminating the spruce around the bridge plate area in the morning. Also going to get to use hide glue for the first time tomorrow (I'll practice on some scraps first) and repair some of the easy cracks first.</p>
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<p></p> Thanks Dave,
I'm going to cro…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-19:2177249:Comment:1688852017-04-19T02:23:31.513ZDoug Cannonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DouglasCannon
<p>Thanks Dave,</p>
<p>I'm going to cross my fingers on that search and hope that I can find some reference. I like your idea and you're right about the tapered bracing. I'm going to try to stick to the older bracing pattern if I can find it. I also found that most of the X bracing had failed, which explains the problems with the bridge and belly of the guitar. Should be a lost of fun.....</p>
<p>Thanks Dave,</p>
<p>I'm going to cross my fingers on that search and hope that I can find some reference. I like your idea and you're right about the tapered bracing. I'm going to try to stick to the older bracing pattern if I can find it. I also found that most of the X bracing had failed, which explains the problems with the bridge and belly of the guitar. Should be a lost of fun.....</p> I don't believe 60's 'Birds h…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2017-04-18:2177249:Comment:1688842017-04-18T14:38:59.654ZDave Richardhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DaveRichard983
<p>I don't believe 60's 'Birds had tapered bracing; just light, straight bracing. I would consider removing the secondary 'x', and replacing it with tone bars, like the originals. Try to find photos of original 'Birds, or other early '60's Gibsons, with the back removed, to study.</p>
<p>I don't believe 60's 'Birds had tapered bracing; just light, straight bracing. I would consider removing the secondary 'x', and replacing it with tone bars, like the originals. Try to find photos of original 'Birds, or other early '60's Gibsons, with the back removed, to study.</p>