I currently have this Gibson MK-35 in my shop for some intonation issues. It also has a worn bridge plate that could use replacement or reinforcement. The problem is that this guitar evidently used some odd construction techniques that complicate the potential repair. I have attached some pics of the bridge plate and the bridge area of the guitar. It appears that someone has already re-glued the bridge and didn't take the time to position it correctly. I appears that the bridge was re-glued about 1/8" closer to the nut than should have been. I was wondering if anybody on this forum has had any experience with these guitars and if so what advice you can give. I am honestly thinking that this repair will be more headache than anything else. And yes the bridge plate is smothered with glue.
I would like to say that I didn't pursue my exchange with Peter in an attempt to precipitate any sort of attack upon anyone. While it's true that I don't always agree with Peter's position on things, I meant it when I stated earlier in this thread that I often enjoy and am entertained by Peter's posting. While I wish his posting were structured in a somewhat more mainstream manner as well as more focused and shorter, it's my personal opinion that he has made some worthwhile contributions to the forum.
Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the question of Peter's involvement in restoration, building or even playing stringed instruments. I DO understand the question and have, frankly, wondered about this too but I've never seen anything that indicates that Frank ever intended to restrict citizenship here to only those that are actively involved in any of those endeavors. While I am curious about Peter, I don't think these questions are or should be really important to us
I guess that I'm trying to say that I don't see where any real damage has been done to anyone in this thread and it may be time for everyone to "let sleeping dogs lie."
I, for one would love to hear a dry sound sample comparison of the MK-35 against say a Martin D-28 or better and maybe a cheap Epi under the exact same conditions. Is there a MK-35 owner out there that could do this for this thread?
Sixty-odd Replies....Well, I think that I have missed a little bit here??
Perhaps I can 'catch-up' one day....MK-35 has 'sparked' some interest, it seems.
Delaying any response until the smoke cleared..... check out this link:
It gives a very honest appraisal & history of the series. If you scroll down and read the reader responses from a poster known as "Jose", you'll read the real truth about the massive production MKFAIL by Gibson. What's most tragic is Gibson's "orders" to retrieve & destroy all the demo models which were hand built by the designer (RS) himself.
It's an enlightening read from a guy who has first hand knowledge.
Have a good'un, buddy :)
NO two guitars can be compared for superiority. Even 2 D-28's will sound different.
That's a totally bogus concept UNLESS the guitars are being compared by one person for a purchase consideration to determine which one has a sound most desirable to the potential buyer.
Also, if evaluating a mid-high end guitar and an economy model, that's also flawed as they are designed for 2 distinct classes of manufacture and performance. Comparing a D-28 (or a Taylor, Collings...heck, even an upper end Blueridge ) to a cheap Epi is like saying: "let's compare the ride on my Cadillac (no I don't have one) and your Yugo. It's bogus.
I've played tons of D-28's (lots of Martins, Taylors, Collings, Froggy Bottom...etc). Some are brilliant, some are dogs. That's just the way it goes.
The most obvious variable in the sound of ANY guitar is in the hands of the player. Last week, I checked out an Ibanez George Benson GB10 AND a Fender GB model Deluxe. Know what? I sounded NOTHING like George Benson although I was playing 'his' gear. That's one reason I think all 'Artist Model" guitars are marketed using bullshit reasoning.
This forum is about repair, building and problem solving, not posting sound clips or 'show & tell'.
I don't wish to sound like an old crank but this forum seems to be growing further & further from that mission. There are plenty of testosterone laden amateur sites to discuss who thinks they have a superior sounding guitar, pickup, fuzztone, amp etc..
Geez...I was just trying to audibly have a frame of reference for the forum as to what the MK-35's sound like in comparison(I've never heard/played one). I may be new to this forum but I'm a 53 year old player who has a possitive attitude and hopes to contribute here without being lectured or told that anything I say is "totally bogus".
Quote: "This forum is about repair, building and problem solving, not posting sound clips or 'show & tell'. This statement completely baffles me, and I would hope that someone else can chime in here to either tell me that your self-important or it's time for me to leave this forum. Thanks.
1.I didn't say what you said was bogus, I said the concept is bogus.
2. "Reply by lowatter on Tuesday
A '55 D-28? I bet it sounds like a dream. You must be a proud owner. I'd love to hear a clip or 2 of it.
I'm still trying to find the time to record a clip of my DC-1E, but I'll get one up here soon. Thanks again guys for your interests and input."
That's where I got the 'sound clip' reference.
Comparing 2 different instruments sound just to see the difference is "show & tell". We deal with photographs of repair issues AND their successful implementation. I see no way in which dabbling in sound clips could contribute to any analysis.
If you re-read my comment, there is nothing remotely "personal" about my reply. I never questioned or challenged your credentials. Neither were you lectured... you received valid information.
I don't want you to leave the forum. On the contrary, Id like to see you stay and enjoy the FREE responses from some of the finest tech's and crafts folk on the planet. Each question asked receives the equivalent (in shop time charges) of hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of comments, information and advice. The one thing I don't wish to see is this forum degenerating into something insignificant like "The (Dreaded) Gear Page".
Forum member have advised fellow members when they're alluded to be straying from the mission of the forum. It's a natural occurrence.
To the other forum members and to further frame my previous comment: There has been much damage done to the camaraderie on the forum recently concerning this very thread. Nobody feels good about it or enjoyed it.
I believe that staying on topic and posting germane replies to the posts could help us stay aligned and avoid such circumstances. I an not always right, however, I'm 'noted' for speaking "what I believe" (ex: calling a dog: a dog ) and do so with fact based arguments in a terse manner. I respect other points of view and truly dislike attacks.
Mr. Ford, could you PLEASE disable further comments on this toxic thread? This thread has more than outlived it's USEFULNESS.
Have a good evening, all.
Sorry Paul. I appreciate you taking the time to retort. I'm really not taking anything personal here and I appreciate your responses.
Again without much ado...I just would like to hear a dry recorded comparison of he MK-35 compared(with the same riff and recording methods) with say now other guitars within thier price range and lower priced ranged instruments. I think that I'm being very clear here.
No sweat, lowatter.
I understand, and appreciate, your curiosity.
It's just that this kind of thing isn't done (I should say: hasn't been done before) on this forum. It's been mentioned in the past but ultimately discouraged because we don't get into those kinds of comparative discussions.
Comparative analysis of something so subjective as 'tone' hinges too much upon personal preference and consequently could render no productive conclusive result, just opinions.
Also, (having a background in professional recording) the one thing that cannot be evaluated via recording is "projection" which is a major component of what separates the Men guitars from the Boy guitars. What I'm saying is that no 'standard' could be established upon which the results could be compared. But that's all academic.
To get my personal view of the MK series, see my comment when this subject was originally posted. I can add nothing to it..It's based upon my experience with the instruments when they were originally introduced to the market and the few I've had on the bench since. Others' mileage has obviously been different than mine and if a player loves his guitar, they're ahead in the game for that reason alone.
Take care and have a good one, our friend :) :.) ...sincerely :)
Paul makes his points succinctly here and having dodged this meandering thread in the rich tapestry of Frets.net, I'm drawn to comment in both my preface and conclusion: The influx of new members and out of the dark lurkers on Frets.net is most welcome but the host of show and tell - and there is much too much "tell" for my liking - rather than the "how do we do this" and "this is how we do this" backbone material, is causing some disturbance.
We are makers, repairers and generally players who work as professionals or those on the rungs of the ladder we have all climbed - simple stuff - question and answer, advice and more advice - learning from our peers. Sharing our knowledge and invention.
I don't really enjoy noisy opinionated places that operate off philosophy, off thread and engender bad manners, dissent and confrontation. That seems to be standard for the "other places" from which a lot of new members are coming from.
60 posts, some being epic tomes of disparate historical analogues, some offensive enough, and some lamenting this situation, about any guitar is way too many - we all have better things to do.
Thank you for your kind sentiments Hesh.
The Issue for me now, is precisely the one, I mentioned earlier.
Argumentum ad hominem. "An ad hominem argument occurs when one attacks the person making an argument rather than the argument itself."
This is the Sporting Equivalent, of being Insufficiently Gifted to Tackle the Ball, the Man is Tackled Instead.
It is in Fact a Foul!
As you may realise, I am well used to Lively Debate.
I come from a Global Centre of Excellence, specialising in Adversarial Debate.
And am Especially Delighted to have taken part in Events at the Prestigious Union Debating Society of Oxford University.
American Speakers at the Hall include President Nixon, President Reagan, President Carter amongst a Great Host many Notable Others.
In my World, where Debate is an Art Form. The People indulging in Argumentum ad hominem Attacks.
That Attack the Person they are Debating with, rather than the Points, the Person is Making.
Would be Deemed by Default, to have Lost the Debate.
To be out of Order, by the Chairman. And the Intelligent Audience, unable to be Fooled and Deceived, would Express their Displeasure at such Banal Attempts with their Vote.
Most Especially with no Rational and Sustainable Argument to Reasonably Present.
As it is Clear Earlier Debating Opponents here have No Substantive Answers to the Many Salient Historically Factual Points Raised. It is also No Wonder, they are Keen, to Quickly Throw in the Towel, and seem to Want Now to Quit!
By the Way I am NOT Referring to anything Paul has written, here at all, rather I am responding to Much Earlier Comments by Others.
But I am, just warming up.
And have as Far More Material Information to Throw at this Debate than I have done so hitherto.
However, for me in my World the Essential Point is, The Earlier Crystal Clear, Argumentum ad hominem Attacks, are also a Clear Signal the Opposition have Lost the Debate!
For me, it's not just.
Through Personal Comments, Attacking Literally Style, etc.
But the Arrogance and Sense of Personal Entitlement is Utterly Breathtaking. where Individuals Assume to Themselves the Role of Moderator.
And Attempt to Directly Challenge the Right of Another, with a View that Differs from Theirs, Again, Presuming by Implication, of what that They Write.
Trying to Create the Impression that their Opponent has no Valid Experience Whatever, Upon which to Base an Opinion. And Throwing Down The Gauntlet Making a Direct Personal Challenge.
This is again, another thinly disguised, Argumentum ad hominem Attack.
Again. "An ad hominem argument occurs when one attacks the person making an argument rather than the argument itself."
Once Again. This is the Sporting Equivalent, of being Insufficiently Gifted to Tackle the Ball, the Man is Tackled Instead. It is in Fact a Foul! Not a Class Way to Act!
Now would the Individuals Involved, to take the Trouble to Read the Posts in the Thread, Properly, or even check Earlier Posts, they would of course, fully realise, (as they may well indeed do), that such Implications, are Entirely False and Erroneous.
That doesn't seem to matter at all. Their Viewpoint being the only one to Prevail, is the only Matter of Consequence to Them. And the Intention of many Individuals on the Internet Today is Attempting to Rewrite History, to Boost Evaluation and Esteem for Instruments and Equipment, to hopefully Increase Values, but in this case of course, it's an entirely Lost Cause form the Start. Such is the Depth of Contempt in which these Guitars are Held. I saw an excellent Example of one Yesterday, that went for Ridiculously Small Money.
However, so Deep is this Problem, that of Misinformation, and the Intention of many Individuals on the Internet Today to Attempt to Rewrite History and Twist Facts, that here at Oxford, (and an Oxford Man Invented the World Wide Web), we are currently Working at Creating an Entirely New Global Internet System. One of Totally Reliable Information from Expert World Authorities, Proven Scientific Research etc. Access to the System will be Limited to Globally Recognised Expert Authorities, Professional Bodies and Established Institutions. The Exorbitant Cost of Accessing this High Signal Ratio Information, will cut out all the Immature "Internet Noise" such has been Experienced, from my Opponents as Experience Earlier.
I have never once, Personally Attacked Anyone here.
Merely Challenged what They Write, the Points they Make, and Shone a Searchlight onto the Inconsistencies, Discrepancies and Outright Contradictions that they have Made.
You will note, that I Always, Only, Ever, Directly Quote their Own Written Words, and Use Their Own Words to Make the Point that I Wish to Make, and Indeed to Expose and Complete and Utter Contradictions.
As I wrote earlier, for me, none of this is Personal. My Opponents have Themselves Written the Words. Thus, They have Contradicted Themselves. I have merely Pointed Out Those Facts, which it appears many others have been Heartily Amused and Highly Entertained by, Judging from Peoples Comments.
There's One Other Thing.
You see, Personally, I don't feel any Need at All, to Justify Myself to Critics.
To Explain, or Write about Myself, Indeed, I would Far Rather, Write about my Friends and their Achievements.
You See, I Travelled Widely as a Professional Musician and have yet to find anywhere in the World a Statue Erected in Honour of a Critic.
So Prefer to leave such Banalities, to others with Those Predispositions.
And Typical English Politeness, Reserve, Understatement and Becoming Modesty, are Classy Attributes I Highly Value.
Hesh, as you Rightly Observed in your Earlier Post, I am Really Concerned with Truth, and Historical Fact. But as long as you can keep a Secret, purely just between ourselves.
As a Young Man I would execute Repairs to Guitars, Banjo's, (Historically there's lots of Well Made British, but completely Non Standard Sized Banjo's fabricated by Independent Luthiers) Ukes, and the Many Variants that mix those Instruments. Drums and Percussion Instruments of every Type and Description, Oboes, Clarinets, Saxophones, (for some reason people think a Saxophone is a Brass Instrument. It is not, it is a Reed Instrument and Belongs to the Woodwind Family) Flutes, Bagpipes, Orchestral Harps, and Electronic Organs.
In the Shop Basement, French Polishers Renovated Old Piano's, whilst Two Floors above The Tuner worked on the Many Hire Concert Grand's. Outside London and Birmingham we were the Biggest Concert Hire and Piano Hire Business in the U.K. and I am equally happy writing about Pianos as Guitars or a great many other Musical Instruments for that matter, which I have Studied under Top Musicians. One of my Groups had a Mellotron, and they were always going wrong and had to be fixed all the Time.
But the Point is, it's Contemptibly Misleading and Pretty Banal to suggest that I have no experience at all of Repairing Musical Instruments. As well as that, a Close Relative, one of the U.K.'s Top Violin Makers, looks after my Instruments if I need Tricky Work done these days, which is very rare as they are so well looked after. As a First Call Violin Repairer, he gets Choice Stradivarius, Guarneri, Amati Instruments to work on amongst many other makes. You might recall my earlier discussion of the Repair to the Historic King George III Regent Cello, 330 years old, with the Gold Crest and Portcullis Paint in Gold on the Back.
But the Point is its Pure Mendacity and Calumniation to Suggest that I have No Experience at all of Repairing Musical Instruments.
It's just that it Reflects but a Small Part of my Earlier Life.
As for Playing the Guitar.
I worked as an Professional Musician (Mainly Lead Guitar Electric and Acoustic, but also occasionally other Instruments) Working Internationally, Performing on Recording Studio Sessions, Appearing in and Recording T.V. Shows, Recording Radio Show Broadcasts in the U.K. and throughout Europe. Later I Played in a little Group.
In fact I Played in Several, and at one Point Juggled Three Groups all at the Same Time on Top of Persuing, Separate Individual Work which is How I got into other areas, like Producing. Growing up amongst so many Authors, Pseudonyms, and Operating Under Various Guises has been a Way of Life. And of course on the Internet appear under a Range of Names.
Hesh, to give you Some Idea. You might be Familiar with the 1973 Pink Floyd Concert at the Huge British Earls Court Venue. The Following Week the little Group I was in, Played the Same Venue, before an Audience of Twenty Two Thousand People. There were Two Huge Neve Mixers at the Event, as a Live Recoding was made, and the Recording Engineer/Producer came over from California to Record us, fresh from working with The Beach Boys.
This wasn't the Groups Largest Audience, as they Played in an Open Air Event at Trafalgar Square Earlier, before an Audience of Four Hundred and Fifty Thousand People. A Short While Ago, on my Birthday, (A Landmark Birthday) A Company in which I have "an interest" Sponsored another Live Musical Event at Trafalgar Square. It was a Free Public Concert for The People, and also Educated them and Involved them at Points throughout the Concert. The London Symphony Orchestra Provided the Band. Ten Thousand People Attended, but the Point is, it Echoed a Massive Earlier Event.
One year I was involved in Projects in Various Ways with a American Composer of Film and TV Fame, Pat Boone, Cliff Richard, Johnny Cash and Others in involving Concerts at Wembley Stadium amongst others. Just in one single year. All of those Guys, Shared the Same Faith I do, and this is a Common Trait in what Interests Me.
Apart from the Music I am Writing Now.
The Last Piece was Written for an Historic Visit By Pope Benedict XVI to this Country which was Organised by Chris Patten, Chancellor of Oxford University and Chairman of the Board of Governors of the B.B.C.
His Historic Visit was to Beatify (Making a Saint) of Leader of The Oxford Movement, Cardinal Newman, who Lived and was Converted to Catholicism, Close to My Home, and Where He Studied, and Had His Private Chapel which I Sometimes Use.
The Lyrics were taken directly from perhaps the Best Known and Loved Words of The Holy Bible, "God So Loved The World" and the Music, was Composed for it. Newman was a Violinist and Composer himself, and all of you will have at some time or others Sang his Famous Hymn "Lead Kindly Light."
Pope Benedict XVI was a Music Lover (Chopin and Mozart especially) and had a Piano in his Private Rooms in the Vatican. Where you would also find Copies of my Sheet Music, and also at least a Couple of my Recordings as well along with his favourite tipple Limoncello.
I am not a Catholic Myself, rather was brought up a Protestant Christian. So as Well as Receiving Appreciative Letters from Popes, You will also find in my Home, Letters from most of the Significant Protestant Christian Leaders of the Latter Half of the Last Century Too.
I Loved Billy Graham, and was Very Pleased to have been able to have Private Meetings with him and to be of Some Service. This I was Delighted, when an Old Pal Wrote a Song in Appreciation of His Evangelistic Work.
See how many Huge Stars of Stage and Screen feel just the Same.
The Last time I Played the Guitar Publically, I was Stood Centre Stage at the Royal Albert Hall, though I usually am more likely to be found Conducting.
I have Received Royalties from Sales of My Recordings featuring my Guitar Playing from Right Around the World. As Far Away as New Zealand they tell me.
My Last Album went to Number 4 in its Respective Chart I am Told, and remained there a Long While. My Last U.K. Tour Took in 17 Major Cities and One Hundred and Forty Five Thousand People, Bought Tickets. But the Salient Point is.
Although I live in Oxford. In the nearby Countryside, I have on a Large Family Estate, a Private Recording Studio, where my Musical Instrument Collection Resides, as The Estate features a Number of Spare Buildings. We could Accommodate an Eighty Piece Orchestra in a Single Room.
Adjacent, is the Private Recording Studio of the U.K.'s most Successful Female Artist. Visitors have been, Peter Gabriel, (a close friend who owns Solid State Logic) Sir Elton John, Steven Fry, Bassist Tony Levin and Dog Mad Drummer Steve Gadd.
It's Utterly Ridiculous to Imply I have no Experience of What a Guitar Should Sound Like.
Hesh, do keep this all a Big Secret, from Everyone Else. As it has Deeply Pained Me, to Write About Myself here in the way I have Felt it was Necessary To.
And I Struggled and Hestitated for a Long Time before Responding to Earlier Comments. But I am wondering. How my Critics Measure Up? They of Course Threw Down the Gauntlet, and made the Direct Personal Challenge.
So I would now like to Know for instance, What Experience Roger has in the Guitar World?
He has already told us, he is Semi-Professional and Plays in Clubs.
And Provided a "Recording" for us to Hear.
As for the Guitar.
There are ways of Testing the Efficiency of the Forward Projection of a Guitar without Playing It Yourself or Listening to Another Play it.
And Such was the First Test I enacted upon receiving the Newly Released Mark Series Acoustic. As a Gibson fan I had a completely open mind about it and though I thought it looked a little different, but was able to overcome that.
It Projected Amazingly Well, but the First thing that Hit Me when I Picked it up was the Weight. The Excellent Example of the Range I first Tried was Incredibly Heavy for an Acoustic Guitar. And As a Rule I like Heavy Guitars, my leas Pauls and Music Man Basses are Heavy. I'll write about Sound in a minute but the Professional Consensus amongst Long Standing Experts was that no Professional Player would want to Play it Stood Up on Stage Performing, Simply because of the Looks and the Weight.
Hesh, as for the Sound, the Best Way to explain this, is to ask if you have ever heard of The Loudness Wars? Record Labels often Play a Range of Recordings to a Listening Panel to see which, out of the Available Recordings, they should Release. If you were to sit on a Judging Panel, you would find that a Recording which is Slightly Louder, 1/2 - 1 dB or more, will always Far better to the Ear Initially. This has Lead to Greater, Excessive Amounts of Compression and Hard Limiting in Recordings to Boost Sound Levels.
As you no doubt realise, Sound Waves have a Peak as well as an Average Level. But the Human Ear does not Respond Primarily to Peak Sound Levels oddly enough, but to in the main, to Average Levels of Loudness. So to the Ear if you can Raise the Average Level of Loudness the Music will Sound Better Initially. However in The Process, Something is Sacrificed, and on Recordings, that is the Peak Signal of the Transient Attack, which is Crushed Downward or Cut Off Completely, so that the Average Level can be Pushed Higher.
When you go to a Concert the Earlier Acts will have their Sound Level Adjusted Lower, but when the Top of the Bill Headline Act comes on Stage, the P.A. Sound Level will be Pushed Higher, because Loudness is at First, Very Impressive.
All this is Completely Verifiable Factually.
Please Read this Short Article.
You will Learn a Lot.
Initially, to the Ear, the Effect is Strikingly Impressive.
However, because the Dynamic Range of the Sound Wave has been Modified.
The Ear, actually receives a Constant in Level Signal that is basically a Sausage of Sound.
The Thing is, A Musical Instruments Natural Sound Wave, and Full Dynamic Range, also allows the Ear to "Breathe Dynamically".
There is Light and Shade and Contrast as a Result. When Musically those Elements are Distorted or Lost, the Ear, although Initially Impressed, Quickly Wearies and Tires of the Effect.
It is Essentially, a Purely Unmusical Effect, because Real Sound Waves are not in Nature Like That. And this is part of the reason why people don't buy Modern C.D.'s or Enjoy Listening to them as they did Vinyl Records, because the Modern Excessive Level does not allow the Ear and Brain to Receive Sound in the way that is Natural to Them.
If you don't quite grasp this, then Watch and Turn your Sound Up.
So what I'm Writing is that there is More to Creating a Great Musical Instrument, than Purely its Ability to Powerfully Project A Greater Level of Sound.
Many Instruments, Concert Grand Piano's for Instance, can be Designed Primarily for Projecting Sound, or Primarily to Deliver the Most Beauteous Possible Tone, and you can hear these difference Between the Makes.
And to my mind at least, the People that are Most Impressed by the Mark Series Guitar, are Impressed because of its Extra Ability to Project a Greater Level of Sound, Acoustically. That is The Thing that Gets Them.
As I Explained Earlier, it Achieves this by Raising the Fundamental Resonant Pitch, and this Gives a Glassy Piano Like Clarity to the Bass. As a Pianist, you might Appreciate I Enjoy Clear Distinctions between these Instruments.
Tonally, the way I think of this matter is like this. Whatever you Manufacture. Whatever the Actual Product, being the First to Bring the Product to Market and Defining the Concept, gives you a Huge Lead over Every Subsequent Competitor.
Perhaps the best way to Illustrate this, is that there's a Famous Event that involved Schneider and his Guitar. After his involvement with Gibson Failed, he first Blamed Gibson, then Blamed the Guitar, saying that the Principals had been Applied to the Wrong Instrument.
So just as Kasha had done previously, Schneider turned to the Nylon Strung Guitar instead and Organised a Symposium to Demonstrate his Innovative Design to a Collection of the Best Classical Guitars Players in the World. They Listened to him Speak and Explain about the Concepts, and then Listened to the Guitar, Performing a Variety of Pieces. And then Schneider asked them to Comment on what they Thought of It.
What they said, every single one of them, was the following: "It Doesn't Sound like a Classical Guitar".
Here you have the Problem in the Nutshell. As far as the Greatest Artists and Performers are concerned, Steel Strung Manufacturers like Martin and Gibson, have Already, Clearly Defined, What a Great Guitar Sounds Like. Even Taylor Guitars Struggle at that.
This is a Formula that Recording Artists quite naturally don't want to mess with too much. And Neither do the Purchasers of their Recordings. The Audience Expect Certain Instruments, to Sound a Certain Way. The Ear is a Sensitive Organ and Easily Detects, when Something is Not as it Should Be.
When you Speak to your Mother, Wife, Son or Daughter, over the Phone. You Immediately Know, if something is wrong, they are anxious or something is bothering them. How is that? It's because you Ear is so Sensitive to the Subtlest Nuances and Inflections of Tone. You hear it in their Voice.
Many Genres of Music, have a Particular Types of Sound. Although Motown had a Great Many Artists, your Ear Immediately Recognised when a Motown Record is Playing. Music Genres, Record Labels, Recording Artists and Types of Musical Instrument all have a Clearly Recognisable Sonic Signature.
In Regard to Commonly Heard, Musical Instruments These Matters have been Defined and Established Long, Long Ago.
Coming from Behind, is always Particularly Difficult, and to Achieve Aesthetic and Commercial Success, Virtually Impossible in many Fields.
But Lacking Endorsement from the Great Artists of the Age, many of which Hugely Featured, Acoustic Guitar Playing; Having a Fundamental Resonant Pitch Shift that Altered the Basic Tonality of the Instrument; and Looking Oddly Sneering and Excessively Heavy, Meant the Guitar was never going to be a Commercial Success.
History, has not only Proven, our Judgement, to be Right.
But also Deeply Sagacious. For it's an Unassailable Fact of History, that the Gibson Mark Series of Guitars. Proved to be a Commercial, Critical, and Catastrophic Failure.
I have to be honest and write that, although I thought some of the other New Instruments Produced under Norlin the then Owners of Gibson's Guidance, were far more acceptable than the Mark Series of Acoustic Guitars.
Certainly they were far more Commercially Successful. But although some of them were Perfectly Good Instruments in their Own Right, to me, Personally, the Overwhelming Majority of these New Instruments, did nothing for me Personally, Neither in Sound and certainly not in Aesthetic Looks.
It's hard not to ask oneself "What were they Thinking of?" In regard to this Lamentable Period of Gibson's History. And hard not to conclude that the Owners of Gibson, whilst being Well Educated Business Men with Fine Suits, did not Properly Understand Guitars, or Guitarists, along with all the other Musical Instruments they made.
And were simply trying to Artificially Create Synergy, between what they saw, as Symbiotically Existing, Different Divisions within the Overall Company Group. So Organs, Electronic Synthesis, Electric Guitars and Basses, and even Acoustic Guitars were all the Same in their Psyche, and could be Mixed and Matched enabling Underlying Technologies to be Introduced or New Ideas to be Implemented, and here's the catch, without the Properly Conducted Marketing Assessments being Conducted necessary to Evaluate the Market.
This Historical Fact, is just another, that is Entirely Beyond Dispute.
Earlier someone mentioned that Manny's sold a Job Lot of these Guitars to the U.K. Distributer. During that Period The U.K. in Particular and Europe in General was used as a Dumping Ground for Product that couldn't be Shifted Elsewhere.
However, it's an Interesting Piece of Factual Information, that unable to Sell their Remaining Stocks of the Mark Series Guitars. Gibson, Sold Them as a Job Lot to a Company that Creatively Utilised the Wood from these Instruments, In Order to Transform them, into Clocks.
Finally Achieving a most Genuinely Practical Usefulness. Along with an Attractive Demeanour. It must be Deeply Gratifying to the Designers and Owners of such Instruments to be Aware of Such Historic Factual Information.
Hesh, the First Instinct of Players of these Instruments. Is to Play Them.
To me, this is a Primary Area where a Fundamental Mistake is Made, as the Best Thing to do with these Guitars, is to Loosen the Strings.
Get Hold of A Construction Blue Print for the Design of the Guitar, fix it to the Wall, and Place a Camera and a Light Inside the Acoustical Body of the Instrument.
Check the Bracing Patterns, as Batches of these Instruments were Produced in the Factory at Certain Periods, where the Bracing Struts were later said to be Fitted to the Top, Back to Front. Completely the Wrong Way Round.
Can you see , it was Far Easier for Companies like Mannie's to Shift their Stock across the Atlantic, as they Began to Realise these Types of Problems had Occurred, and Might have to be Dealt with,Creating Hugely Expensive Warrantee Claims, and an Adverse Effect on their Business Reputation.
By the way.
Schneider, believed that in Order to Work Properly.
The Bridge as is fitted to the Mark's should be reduced to Six Separate Individual Bridges.
Perhaps you can recall my earlier Expositions of the Books he was into, and the String Idea of "Minimalisation" of Unnecessary Materials.
Hesh. Knowing How Great Manufacturers, are at periods, Unable to get a Standard Traditional Bridge Glued in the Right Spot, Just Imagine how Difficult and Time Consuming it would be for a Factory, to Implement such a Complicated Individual Bridge Array, Each with its Own Separate Saddle using Typical Production Workers.
To my mind at least.
If someone wants this Type of Product.
I do not believe it is Best Manufactured in a Factory by Production Workers.
I would Recommend, Enthusiasts Buy, the Brilliantly Made, Bespoke Offering from Great Craftsmen.
I'm trying to give an Objective Overview here, rather than a Limited Subjective Opinion regarding one Singular Instrument.
Heck, I've Even Played Ovations that Truly Sounded Tremendously Great.
So I can believe that Roger's Guitar and your Pals, does too.
But perhaps as you've seen, that isn't.
The Whole Story.
And it's the Big Pictures that Interests Me.
Rather than the "Sound" of Particular Guitars.
That are Warmly Appreciated by Particular People.
I think the World is Big Enough to Accommodate All of Us.
As Long as We are Decent Enough to Deserve to be Living in it.
As I earlier Wrote, I Actually Believe All Humankinds Problems Lie Within Humankind Itself.
Very Best Wishes, and Once Again, Hesh.
Thanks for your Kind Comments.
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