Guild F30 neck/headstock crack - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T12:08:53Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/guild-f30-neck-headstock-crack?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A149820&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJust wanted to give an update…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-10-12:2177249:Comment:1511132015-10-12T04:35:39.645Zeliyahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/eliya
<p>Just wanted to give an update:</p>
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<p>I finally glued it all up and it came out well. The headstock and nut slot look great and are perfectly level! At the neck the crack has a bit of a ridge to it. It seems like either the wood swelled or compressed a little bit. The neck has no twist, though, so I don't think this will affect playability. I tried to get some thin viscosity CA glue in the cracks after the gluing and drying time was over, but it didn't go very far…</p>
<p>Just wanted to give an update:</p>
<p></p>
<p>I finally glued it all up and it came out well. The headstock and nut slot look great and are perfectly level! At the neck the crack has a bit of a ridge to it. It seems like either the wood swelled or compressed a little bit. The neck has no twist, though, so I don't think this will affect playability. I tried to get some thin viscosity CA glue in the cracks after the gluing and drying time was over, but it didn't go very far in.</p>
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<p>Thanks again everyone for your help.</p> NedHugh Evans is the guy I th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1500032015-08-27T20:42:39.634ZMark Foglemanhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MarkFogleman
<p>Ned<br></br>Hugh Evans is the guy I think you're talking about. There are 2 versions of Titebond Extend: Titebond Original Extend and Titebond II Extend. In this thread he discusses this and recommends Titebond Original Extend as a go to glue for luthiers because it dries harder than plain TB Original d/t the wood flour added to increase open/working time:…</p>
<p>Ned<br/>Hugh Evans is the guy I think you're talking about. There are 2 versions of Titebond Extend: Titebond Original Extend and Titebond II Extend. In this thread he discusses this and recommends Titebond Original Extend as a go to glue for luthiers because it dries harder than plain TB Original d/t the wood flour added to increase open/working time: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=595379#p595379" target="_blank">http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=595379#p595379</a></p> Your welcome eliya. I general…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1498722015-08-27T20:03:32.239ZPaul Breenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulBreen
<p>Your welcome eliya. I generally have a camera handy around the bench and usually get some process pics, unless I'm too pressed for time on a project.</p>
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<p>Keeping the neck on your guitar warmed up with the Infrared lights is no problem but does take a little time because wood is not a good conductor of heat. However, dark finishes, like the finish on your guitar or the dark finger board heat up rather quickly. Light colored surfaces take more time and reflective surfaces won't…</p>
<p>Your welcome eliya. I generally have a camera handy around the bench and usually get some process pics, unless I'm too pressed for time on a project.</p>
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<p>Keeping the neck on your guitar warmed up with the Infrared lights is no problem but does take a little time because wood is not a good conductor of heat. However, dark finishes, like the finish on your guitar or the dark finger board heat up rather quickly. Light colored surfaces take more time and reflective surfaces won't heat. I tried heating Aluminum stock with an Infrared lamp and it hardly warmed at all. I had the same problem tying to use the hot lamp to keep a clear plastic hypodermic rig for injecting hot hide glue warm. I solved the problem by placing the hypo rig on a Black laminate panel. The Black panel heated right up and keep my glue in the hypo nice and hot.</p>
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<p>Using hot hide glue is not rocket science, nor does it require special equipment. But as mentioned, there is a learning curve to mastering it's use. Also more that one way to get a job like yours competently done. Your getting good suggestions on the forum here but ultimately you have to decide on a method that you can feel comfortable with, hope it turns out well for you.</p> That's interesting. I'd love…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1499492015-08-27T16:35:41.949Zeliyahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/eliya
<p>That's interesting. I'd love to read that too, if you have the link.</p>
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<p>I like that Titebond Extend will stay strong even after spending a night in 150F heat. I don't plan on ever leaving my guitar in a hot car, but I might not be its only owner in the future.</p>
<p>That's interesting. I'd love to read that too, if you have the link.</p>
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<p>I like that Titebond Extend will stay strong even after spending a night in 150F heat. I don't plan on ever leaving my guitar in a hot car, but I might not be its only owner in the future.</p> Not absolutely sure but I thi…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1497552015-08-27T15:36:36.151ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Not absolutely sure but I think I read recently that Tightbond Extend remains more elastic than original Tightbond when it dries. I'm pretty sure it was the extended version that he was writing about but I could be wrong. Which ever it was, what I read was written by someone that actually worked for the company. His recommendation was to stick with original Tightbond for instrument work.</p>
<p>Not absolutely sure but I think I read recently that Tightbond Extend remains more elastic than original Tightbond when it dries. I'm pretty sure it was the extended version that he was writing about but I could be wrong. Which ever it was, what I read was written by someone that actually worked for the company. His recommendation was to stick with original Tightbond for instrument work.</p> Thanks, Paul! And thanks for…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1499472015-08-27T15:31:48.584Zeliyahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/eliya
<p>Thanks, Paul! And thanks for the pictures! I always enjoy seeing people's shops and how they do things.</p>
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<p>I should have been clearer about the glue - I don't use a glue pot. I heat up some water, and put a frozen cube of hide glue in a sauce cup in the water. I first get the glue to 145F, then a little before I'm ready to glue I move it to water that's at 160F. So the glue is never heated to 160F for a prolonged amount of time. From what I understand, this seems ok. I also keep…</p>
<p>Thanks, Paul! And thanks for the pictures! I always enjoy seeing people's shops and how they do things.</p>
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<p>I should have been clearer about the glue - I don't use a glue pot. I heat up some water, and put a frozen cube of hide glue in a sauce cup in the water. I first get the glue to 145F, then a little before I'm ready to glue I move it to water that's at 160F. So the glue is never heated to 160F for a prolonged amount of time. From what I understand, this seems ok. I also keep the surfaces to be glued heated, but with this crack it'll be hard to keep this thick neck (and inside the crack) at 100F. Perhaps I'm wrong, though!</p> eliya, go with what is comfor…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1500012015-08-27T15:13:42.450ZPaul Breenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulBreen
<p>eliya, go with what is comfortable for you but for future reference, don't over heat hide glue past about 145 degrees. The proteins begin to break down when over heated and cost bond strength. Use thinner glue and <strong>heat the work</strong> for more open time. Applying hide glue in more than one application lets the first application soak into the wood a bit before adding more. This will keep the wood from sucking the moisture out of the glue too fast, prevent a dry joint and buys you…</p>
<p>eliya, go with what is comfortable for you but for future reference, don't over heat hide glue past about 145 degrees. The proteins begin to break down when over heated and cost bond strength. Use thinner glue and <strong>heat the work</strong> for more open time. Applying hide glue in more than one application lets the first application soak into the wood a bit before adding more. This will keep the wood from sucking the moisture out of the glue too fast, prevent a dry joint and buys you time.</p>
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<p>Here are a couple of pictures that show Infra Red lamps in clamp or desk lamp fixtures, they are very simple versatile to use. I get the area to be glued quite warm, you want the wood to be 100 plus degrees and I leave them on during the entire glue-up process.<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167754846?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167754846?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a> <a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167755157?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167755157?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a>Fingerboards can present challenges to clamp and keep things aligned. Figured I would post this too, after looking through my pics to find a few clamp light shots and ran across this Aluminum bass job.</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167755303?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167755303?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a>It is a length of truck inner tube, cut in a continuous strip, stretch and wrap. With the hide glue, I don't have to be concerned about glue squeeze out clean up in and around the rubber band. It is easily taken care of after it's dry with a cloth dampened in hot water. I throw the rubber band in water and let it sit until the dry glue dissolves away.</p> Thanks for the replies, guys…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1499432015-08-27T03:59:40.131Zeliyahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/eliya
<p>Thanks for the replies, guys (you too, Paul Verticchio).</p>
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<p>There's no way I can do this with CA glue. This is a big crack. We're talking about 4" along the neck, plus the headstock damage. It'll be very difficult to get the CA in all that area and clamp it before it starts drying. </p>
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<p>Same thing with hide glue, pretty much. I love using it, but not sure I'll have enough open time to get it everywhere. Thinning it is an option, but it'll have to be thinned quite a bit…</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies, guys (you too, Paul Verticchio).</p>
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<p>There's no way I can do this with CA glue. This is a big crack. We're talking about 4" along the neck, plus the headstock damage. It'll be very difficult to get the CA in all that area and clamp it before it starts drying. </p>
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<p>Same thing with hide glue, pretty much. I love using it, but not sure I'll have enough open time to get it everywhere. Thinning it is an option, but it'll have to be thinned quite a bit to give it any sort of capillary action like you'd expect from superglue, and at that point, its strength will be compromised. One thing I could do is heat it up to higher than 145F, maybe 160F, which will give me more open time.</p>
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<p>I think Titebond Extend is going to be my glue of choice. I'll wick some hot water in the crack prior to gluing, then get the glue in there with compressed air and Paul's glue applicator. Then get superglue in there after it had sufficient time to dry.</p> Hi eliya.
I'm copying this fr…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1498632015-08-27T02:49:05.228ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p>Hi eliya.</p>
<p>I'm copying this from an older thread. Here is the exact device you need to get the glue in the joint:</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167751060?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" height="400" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167751060?profile=original" width="562"></img></a> I'd make the applicator side about 4" long so the glue can really get in there. Be liberal with your glue and have wet rags around for a quick cleanup. This device has a hearty "push behind it" and the pressure truly assists gravity.</p>
<p>For this…</p>
<p>Hi eliya.</p>
<p>I'm copying this from an older thread. Here is the exact device you need to get the glue in the joint:</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167751060?profile=original"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167751060?profile=original" height="400" width="562"/></a>I'd make the applicator side about 4" long so the glue can really get in there. Be liberal with your glue and have wet rags around for a quick cleanup. This device has a hearty "push behind it" and the pressure truly assists gravity.</p>
<p>For this application, I'd begin using 1/2" shrink tubing. It's worked for me several times on similar cracks and I'm confident it'll work like a champ for you too.</p>
<p>Good luck with the repair. Love those F-30's :)</p> If not using hide glue, go fo…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-08-27:2177249:Comment:1497472015-08-27T02:15:17.350ZDavid Farmerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DavidFarmer
<p>If not using hide glue, go for the Tightbond <u>Extend</u>. Much more strength when heated. I would thin the glue. penetration is the name of the game here. Also orient the cracks so gravity is helping you work the glue in.</p>
<p>If not using hide glue, go for the Tightbond <u>Extend</u>. Much more strength when heated. I would thin the glue. penetration is the name of the game here. Also orient the cracks so gravity is helping you work the glue in.</p>