Help with restoration of Gibson lg1 - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T16:00:38Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/help-with-restoration-of-gibson-lg1?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A152324&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks Ken, that's interestin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-09:2177249:Comment:1526872016-01-09T01:50:17.045ZCarla Ruighhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/CarlaRuigh
Thanks Ken, that's interesting info.
Thanks Ken, that's interesting info. It's 12 5/16 to the fret , an…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-07:2177249:Comment:1526212016-01-07T21:34:48.626ZLen Biglinhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/LenBiglin
<p>It's 12 5/16 to the fret , and 24 3/4" to centre of saddle , 3 15/16 sound hole .I seem to recall it's 1962 roughly , S.N.149275 but gibson numbers dont mean much in this era.</p>
<p>It's 12 5/16 to the fret , and 24 3/4" to centre of saddle , 3 15/16 sound hole .I seem to recall it's 1962 roughly , S.N.149275 but gibson numbers dont mean much in this era.</p> Hello Len, thanks for reply.…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-07:2177249:Comment:1526822016-01-07T06:34:11.296ZCarla Ruighhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/CarlaRuigh
<p>Hello Len, thanks for reply. I'd be interested to know the measurements from the inside face of the nut to the center of the 12th fret, and also from the inside face of the nut to the center of the saddle at the middle of the fret board. What year is your LG1? Thanks -cjr- </p>
<p>Hello Len, thanks for reply. I'd be interested to know the measurements from the inside face of the nut to the center of the 12th fret, and also from the inside face of the nut to the center of the saddle at the middle of the fret board. What year is your LG1? Thanks -cjr- </p> Hi Carla , I have an LG1 on m…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-06:2177249:Comment:1526182016-01-06T10:10:50.332ZLen Biglinhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/LenBiglin
<p>Hi Carla , I have an LG1 on my lounge , I replaced the bridge with an ebony copy 30yrs ago , if you need any measurements</p>
<p>im happy to help , its all original , and yes ladder braced .</p>
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<p>Hi Carla , I have an LG1 on my lounge , I replaced the bridge with an ebony copy 30yrs ago , if you need any measurements</p>
<p>im happy to help , its all original , and yes ladder braced .</p>
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<p></p> Thanks for the feedback Joshu…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-02:2177249:Comment:1523352016-01-02T04:32:38.685ZCarla Ruighhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/CarlaRuigh
<p>Thanks for the feedback Joshua.. I dug out the real fine ruler, and that is exactly where the center of the 12th fret falls on my LG1, 12 5/16". So what is the distance from the nut to the back center of the saddle on your LG-0? ( From what I've read, the scale length is measured from the nut inside face to the back face of the saddle at the center).. cjr</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback Joshua.. I dug out the real fine ruler, and that is exactly where the center of the 12th fret falls on my LG1, 12 5/16". So what is the distance from the nut to the back center of the saddle on your LG-0? ( From what I've read, the scale length is measured from the nut inside face to the back face of the saddle at the center).. cjr</p> Scale length can be given two…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-01:2177249:Comment:1523342016-01-01T10:30:09.000ZJoshua Levin-Epsteinhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JoshuaLevinEpstein
<p>Scale length can be given two ways, with and without compensation. That being said, you will be placing your bridge (actually the saddle installed on the bridge) in relation to the scale of the guitar on hand. </p>
<p>The distance to the 12th fret on my LG-0 is 12 5/16" (less a skosh).</p>
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<p>Also, you shouldn't assume the bridge on that other LG-1 is placed properly. Mistakes happen, even (or especially) at big factories.</p>
<p>Scale length can be given two ways, with and without compensation. That being said, you will be placing your bridge (actually the saddle installed on the bridge) in relation to the scale of the guitar on hand. </p>
<p>The distance to the 12th fret on my LG-0 is 12 5/16" (less a skosh).</p>
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<p>Also, you shouldn't assume the bridge on that other LG-1 is placed properly. Mistakes happen, even (or especially) at big factories.</p> Happy New Year, Ned, thanks…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-01-01:2177249:Comment:1524422016-01-01T06:16:45.133ZCarla Ruighhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/CarlaRuigh
<p>Happy New Year, Ned, thanks for the insightful comments. Enjoyed the story of your attempted dulcimer build.... Look what I found free.. ; <a href="http://www.guittek.com/product/1940-acoustic-l-00" target="_blank">http://www.guittek.com/product/1940-acoustic-l-00</a>. I'll have to look at this closer, but appears to be very close to the lg1. One thing I discovered, the scale length for the lg1 is 24.75 inches. The 12th fret should therefore be 12.375, but it isn't on this guitar.…</p>
<p>Happy New Year, Ned, thanks for the insightful comments. Enjoyed the story of your attempted dulcimer build.... Look what I found free.. ; <a href="http://www.guittek.com/product/1940-acoustic-l-00" target="_blank">http://www.guittek.com/product/1940-acoustic-l-00</a>. I'll have to look at this closer, but appears to be very close to the lg1. One thing I discovered, the scale length for the lg1 is 24.75 inches. The 12th fret should therefore be 12.375, but it isn't on this guitar. It's closer to12.25. So that presents a bit of a conundrum... My brother says he has a friend with an lg1, he sent him an email asking for some measurements... So waiting to see what he says... </p> The idea of you and your husb…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-12-31:2177249:Comment:1524412015-12-31T22:15:42.924ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>The idea of you and your husband working on projects at the same time is great. Both of your will need a third or fourth hand now and then. I've found myself in the middle of something that really could have used a "bit of help" too many times.</p>
<p> I completely understand the reservations about neck resets but, as I pointed out earlier, if it doesn't need it, the neck will just go right back on. If it does need it, you will already be ahead in the game. BTW, it's not my intention to…</p>
<p>The idea of you and your husband working on projects at the same time is great. Both of your will need a third or fourth hand now and then. I've found myself in the middle of something that really could have used a "bit of help" too many times.</p>
<p> I completely understand the reservations about neck resets but, as I pointed out earlier, if it doesn't need it, the neck will just go right back on. If it does need it, you will already be ahead in the game. BTW, it's not my intention to scare you or anything just to give some perspective, the job you have already chosen to do is every bit as complex as a neck reset. It's ALL a matter of information and practice and attention to detail. </p>
<p>Remember to get the whole process down so you don't make too many mistakes. You will make some anyway, it's a given. Just try to avoid making "dumb" ones as much as possible. Something that may or may not be apparent to you is that the bridge shouldn't be glued on before you are ready to set the neck again. The relationship between it's placement and the neck set are too sensitive to just assume that the bridge position is "roughly" correct. You will need to know where the bridge will go, roughly so you can properly place the bridge plate and X brace intersection/sound hole. It's all related which is why I think you need to have plans to study. The best case would be exact plans but I don't know where to find any right now for a mid '6os X braced LG. The dimensions on the plans I pointed to are close enough that making adjustments shouldn't be too hard but you will need to do some careful measurements to get the sound hole/ X brace intersection/ bridge location correct for the scale length. Double check this on your neck with careful measurement from the nut to the center of the 12 fret then double it. That the uncompensated scale length. It won't work for saddle placement but it will allow you to position the bridge plate correctly.</p>
<p>I can't overstate how important it is to read everything you can find on the matter. Don't restrict yourself to repair sites/books either. Some of the best information you will find will be from builders since you are, for all intents and purposes, combining a new build with a repair. The major difference is that you are not free to change thing that a builder would be able to manipulate like the scale length, neck/ body joint location and bridge placement.</p>
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<p>Just a personal note about how I deal with the mountain of information. I really like ebooks and the internet BUT I maintain a small and growing library of hard copy items for reference. I have books, magazines, photo copies, pictures and even "hard copy" examples in the form of old parts that I can use for reference. You really can't get too much information and know how to lay hands on it quickly. In your case, you are looking for specific information about an instrument but if you continue to do this sort of thing, (it's a very virulent and you may, someday, find that you suffer a chronic shortness of storage space for "project that are waiting for attention" and such ) you may find yourself making modification to an instrument that were never designed into it to begin with. I've added X braces to a few instrument that were not originally braced in this manner and found that I was, for all intents and purposes, designing the bracing system from scratch. In a case like this, everything you can find can help you. Again, it's the details that can bite you and you it would be hard to have too much reference material.</p>
<p>Well, in the interest of honesty, I have to admit that it really is possible to have too many "hard copy" examples of "things" but some of them are just cool so I keep them anyway. I'm even pretty sure that I have a bridge plate and bridge from an old LG ( late '50s) that I kept for reference. Neither is in good enough condition to use again but they are still original in dimensions/design so I kept them. They have both been handy more than once in the past. Really, though, I doubt that I need to have a few dozen old, chipped up end pins or a hand full of warped shrunken old bridge pins. (I wonder if any of them will burn like old picks... could be fun!!)</p>
<p>I made a dulicimer once with a scale that I too directly from my guitar. It was early in my guitar years and didn't turn out so well. There was a lot of ignorance involved in that "build" that went well beyond my ability to shape and glue wood. I never would have guessed then just how many and how important the details are in making an instrument that actually plays in tune and sound decent. I certainly learned a lot about what I didn't know. I hadn't thought about it for decades but came across it in my parents house when I was home several years ago. I couldn't believe that they kept it but then they didn't have any idea that it was a complete and utter disaster as an instrument and they thought it was important to me. I suppose , in a way it was but I still can believe they kept it all this time. To quote Monty Python; "I got better."</p>
<p></p> Andrew,Ned... so very much ap…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-12-30:2177249:Comment:1525302015-12-30T06:15:44.067ZCarla Ruighhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/CarlaRuigh
<p>Andrew,Ned... so very much appreciate your input-- and everyone else, been so helpful. I'm not worried about the work involved in pulling the neck, and I'm not worried about the amount of time this takes. My fear with the neck is re-setting it, and screwing it all up... Cutting the sound hole, placing the bridge, dealing with the binding, doing the bracing etc., I have some at least similar experience with those tasks. But, setting a neck is far afield of anything I've done so far --…</p>
<p>Andrew,Ned... so very much appreciate your input-- and everyone else, been so helpful. I'm not worried about the work involved in pulling the neck, and I'm not worried about the amount of time this takes. My fear with the neck is re-setting it, and screwing it all up... Cutting the sound hole, placing the bridge, dealing with the binding, doing the bracing etc., I have some at least similar experience with those tasks. But, setting a neck is far afield of anything I've done so far -- therein lies the resistance. I have a steamer that I can rig up with some kind of fine nozzle that I can get into a 1/16" hole as I have seen done.... I'm pretty sure I'll be able to remove it OK. Sounds like that is what I need to do. I'll check out those plans for the bracing. As a side note, we are building a woodstrip tandem kayak, really my husband's project. So, I'm working on the guitar while he is working on the Kayak, and I'm there to help with the Kayak when there is stuff for me to do... So, really little downside to tackling the restore. Oh, and yes, the Dulcimers are chromatic rather than diatonic, which is the traditional dulcimer. It has become pretty common to add a 6.5 fret, then a 1.5 fret etc., to dulcimers.. so heck why not go chromatic? Some traditionalist balk. But heck, the "original" dulcimer didn't have frets that went all the way across, and they were never played chord melody style, etc., so, chromatic is just another evolution... </p> Hi Carla,
Very nice dulcimer…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-12-30:2177249:Comment:1525992015-12-30T04:57:27.253ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Hi Carla,</p>
<p> Very nice dulcimers. I noticed that you went with an evenly tempered scale rather than the one I usually see on these. Looks like a very good job.</p>
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<p>You have my sympathy. I'm saying that because I'm pretty sure that this is turning out to be more than you might have bargained for. It's all part of the fun and you will probably know much more about Gibson LG guitars and acoustic guitar construction in general than you thought you would need before you are…</p>
<p>Hi Carla,</p>
<p> Very nice dulcimers. I noticed that you went with an evenly tempered scale rather than the one I usually see on these. Looks like a very good job.</p>
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<p>You have my sympathy. I'm saying that because I'm pretty sure that this is turning out to be more than you might have bargained for. It's all part of the fun and you will probably know much more about Gibson LG guitars and acoustic guitar construction in general than you thought you would need before you are finished.</p>
<p> You appear to be falling into a very common trap. It's very common for beginners to underestimate the amount of work involved in a repair job. This is pretty big... do-able but not a simple fix. It can be disheartening to hear someone suggesting that you make what sound like more work before you make the fix but it's pretty common in repair work. You have received some very good advice... but you are resisting, probably because it will add to the work and you may not be too sure of your abilities. </p>
<p>Pull the neck. If it doesn't need to be reset, which you can't truly assess now, you will be able to fit it right back into place once the top is in place. If it does need to be reset, you will have removed when it will be about as easy as it ever gets. You need to get it out of the way. You will probably have your hands full just getting everything aligned again without having it in the way and until you have the top in place and a bridge that is ready to fit, you don't need it anyway. </p>
<p>Plan everything out completely before you do anything else. You really need to know what NEEDS to happen and when before you jump in or you're probably going to learn how much fun it is to scrape, plane, pry or rip out/off what you finished doing to the project. With the building you have done, you should be able to do this but repair is not the same as building. There is a different mind set and working with something that someone else made... decades ago can have some pitfalls that may not be all that easy to see.</p>
<p> Since you want to go with an X brace, I would suggest that you invest in some plans. There are plans for a '37 L00 on both the GAL (Guild of American Luthiers) site or on the Lmii site ( same as the plans on GAL) that will work. It's NOT an exact fit but it will get you close. The LMII plans are found <a href="http://www.lmii.com/products/media-gifts-more/plans/plans-steel-string/2478-plan-circa-1937-gibson-l-00/flypage-noimage" target="_blank">here</a>. I gave a link to them simply because they are a bit cheaper. </p>
<p>In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a hobbyist, not a pro. I've done this for quite a while now but my production is very low in comparison to the professionals. There's a lot to learn and a lot of help available here but you should always remember that the instrument is in your hands and the results are dependant almost completely on your knowledge, and ability. The more you know and the better your skill, the better the result will be. Your dulcimers go a lot way towards showing that you probably have the ability to do this but don't underestimate the amount of information you will need to do this properly. </p>