hot iron vs flowing steam for bending side - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T17:47:08Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/hot-iron-vs-flowing-steam-for?x=1&id=2177249%3ATopic%3A27448&feed=yes&xn_auth=noFrom what I understand the si…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-04-26:2177249:Comment:288972010-04-26T16:53:08.992ZDonald A. Fortunehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DonaldAFortune
From what I understand the sides of a guitar are like the sides of a drum- all they do is hold the box together and have nothing to do with sound with the exception that sound may bounce around in side the box -- I stand corrected if this comment is not true..... Peace, Donald
From what I understand the sides of a guitar are like the sides of a drum- all they do is hold the box together and have nothing to do with sound with the exception that sound may bounce around in side the box -- I stand corrected if this comment is not true..... Peace, Donald That's what's adviced in LMII…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-04-26:2177249:Comment:288852010-04-26T11:28:14.718ZPierre-Antoine Roironhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PierreAntoineRoiron
That's what's adviced in LMII side bending jig video too.
That's what's adviced in LMII side bending jig video too. i have to add something to th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-04-26:2177249:Comment:288832010-04-26T11:01:25.166ZHappy Builderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HappyBuilder
i have to add something to the above note<br />
that after removing from the bender there will be some spring back<br />
even after two or three days there will be some more spring back<br />
but if you heat the side on the bender once more and heat it for 30 mins after pre heat the side will have absolutely no spring back at least i did not get any spring back<br />
so best of luck
i have to add something to the above note<br />
that after removing from the bender there will be some spring back<br />
even after two or three days there will be some more spring back<br />
but if you heat the side on the bender once more and heat it for 30 mins after pre heat the side will have absolutely no spring back at least i did not get any spring back<br />
so best of luck ok
finally i have now tried a…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-04-21:2177249:Comment:287342010-04-21T10:36:59.378ZHappy Builderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HappyBuilder
ok<br />
finally i have now tried all the four different methods of bending<br />
<br />
hot pipe<br />
it is good to bend but has a learning curve<br />
what i found difficult was bending exactly as per plan and also both sides are difficult to match exactly<br />
it needs a lot of practice<br />
also you tend to get over enthusiastic and break a few pieces<br />
also some chance of scorching<br />
also it is difficult to bend anything above 2mm<br />
and anyways you need a form later for drying without springback<br />
<br />
steaming<br />
the sides are tooo thin to…
ok<br />
finally i have now tried all the four different methods of bending<br />
<br />
hot pipe<br />
it is good to bend but has a learning curve<br />
what i found difficult was bending exactly as per plan and also both sides are difficult to match exactly<br />
it needs a lot of practice<br />
also you tend to get over enthusiastic and break a few pieces<br />
also some chance of scorching<br />
also it is difficult to bend anything above 2mm<br />
and anyways you need a form later for drying without springback<br />
<br />
steaming<br />
the sides are tooo thin to remain hot and steamy and plastic for more than 10 seconds after removing from steam box and then to get the waist and the two bouts is difficult also there is chance of cracking if it cools<br />
<br />
boiling<br />
same like steaming may cool off in 10 - 15 seconds but remains wet longer<br />
too much of moisture<br />
also if wood is not of the best grade it becomes uneven on the surface<br />
<br />
light bulb fox bender<br />
best as far as my experience goes<br />
no cons or<br />
little drawbacks<br />
you have to wait for 30 minutes before it heats up<br />
then load the wet wood<br />
wait for 15 minutes for wood to heat up too<br />
then by that time the wood is hot it dries up<br />
then spray some water again<br />
slowly keep pushing it will bend but be very slow but firm not pushy<br />
will have some springback definately<br />
so either have the form with tighter bends than required or a cooling form with tighter bends then required<br />
always keep the wood wet when bending keep looking below the slat for dry areas and keep it wet may be you have to spray five to six times during the whole process ( i had 6 mm of thickness with 2 mm very little spraying should be enough)<br />
i bent 6 mm rosewood sides with this bender in one hours times after preheat 30 minutes<br />
whats helps is the two slats trap heat and moisture also they stop the sides from cracking at end of fibres and they provide heating of the entire piece uniformly<br />
i think this is the best way to bend<br />
yes you need a seperate bender for each size<br />
i built mine with only scarp ar zero cost except my time which shoud take you around 6 - 8 hours build a fox or everett bender and see the light bulbs do magic<br />
build it with ply sides or wood sides or some other heat insulation material<br />
use alluminium or better steel or still better spring steel slats<br />
use 3 or 4 bulbs of 100 watts each for uniform distribution of heat<br />
my first two bulb proved to be a mistake as the bouts are far off and with four bulbs it is uniform<br />
remember light bulbs take 30 45 mins to heat up the entire jig<br />
dont force the wood to bend but gently and firmly mould it<br />
<b>also most important the centre of the bottom slat at the waist will bend down i.e. it will not touch the wood so give it some support upwards with a spring or clip it to the top slat or use a waist support system or tie it with a copper wire to the top slat</b> or else you will crack the waist<br />
the bottom slat heats up -- it has to touch the wood at the waist to work so some how keep the two slats touching the wood all the time for uniform heating<br />
and for spring back just make tighter curves initially<br />
and do not remove from the bender till dry<br />
heat and cool three time with an hours gap should do it with last heating and drying to be done without the top slat thanks robert
i will wait fo…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-03-28:2177249:Comment:277192010-03-28T07:48:48.624ZHappy Builderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HappyBuilder
thanks robert<br />
<br />
i will wait for six weeks -- i live in a humid area<br />
<br />
happy
thanks robert<br />
<br />
i will wait for six weeks -- i live in a humid area<br />
<br />
happy It depends on the relative hu…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-03-26:2177249:Comment:276762010-03-26T14:13:12.049ZRobert Banderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobertBander
It depends on the relative humidity where you are. If it is a dry locality then it needs more time, if humid it takes less time to reach equilibrium. However since you soaked the wood through and through, it could take longer. I'm really not sure. Under normal circumstances, six weeks is a good average length of time if you had some billets of wood delivered to you. Maybe a boat builder would know more about it.<br />
Robert
It depends on the relative humidity where you are. If it is a dry locality then it needs more time, if humid it takes less time to reach equilibrium. However since you soaked the wood through and through, it could take longer. I'm really not sure. Under normal circumstances, six weeks is a good average length of time if you had some billets of wood delivered to you. Maybe a boat builder would know more about it.<br />
Robert thanks robert
after cutting…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-03-26:2177249:Comment:276732010-03-26T12:34:36.021ZHappy Builderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HappyBuilder
thanks robert<br />
<br />
after cutting and bending and finally ready for glueing -- is one month enough for equilibrium<br />
<br />
happy
thanks robert<br />
<br />
after cutting and bending and finally ready for glueing -- is one month enough for equilibrium<br />
<br />
happy that would make your sides ap…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-03-25:2177249:Comment:276412010-03-25T11:24:46.959ZEverett Stonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EverettStone
that would make your sides approx 1/4 inch? Don't think so. You could try.
that would make your sides approx 1/4 inch? Don't think so. You could try. hey everett
thanks for your i…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-03-23:2177249:Comment:276032010-03-23T14:11:27.845ZHappy Builderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HappyBuilder
hey everett<br />
thanks for your info in that case can i make my sides 6 mm<br />
will that be ok<br />
since side is for support<br />
rgds
hey everett<br />
thanks for your info in that case can i make my sides 6 mm<br />
will that be ok<br />
since side is for support<br />
rgds What you want to be optimal i…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-03-22:2177249:Comment:275812010-03-22T22:41:09.090ZRobert Banderhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobertBander
What you want to be optimal is that the free water in the wood is at equilibrium with the ambient relative humidity. This will minimize the wood losing or taking on water, and as a result the wood will not swell or compress because no water is leaving or entering. If wood undergoes a dimensional change as a result of changing moisture content, it may split, buckle, pull out a glue joint with the top/back etc. Not good for the sound.<br />
Robert
What you want to be optimal is that the free water in the wood is at equilibrium with the ambient relative humidity. This will minimize the wood losing or taking on water, and as a result the wood will not swell or compress because no water is leaving or entering. If wood undergoes a dimensional change as a result of changing moisture content, it may split, buckle, pull out a glue joint with the top/back etc. Not good for the sound.<br />
Robert