How many ways to shave a bridge? - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T04:50:16Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/how-many-ways-to-shave-a-bridge?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A141159&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI fitted a Cumberland Acousti…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-27:2177249:Comment:1411922014-12-27T17:40:52.042ZLARRY KLOSEhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/LARRYKLOSE
<p>I fitted a Cumberland Acoustic ebony archtop bridge to a guitar with a top that didn't conform to the standard shape of the bridge--there wasn't enough material at the ends. CA's Steve Smith made me a custom base by attaching additional material to the standard feet so that it fit perfectly. He used CA glue for the joint and it is virtually invisible. Jet black ebony certainly hides such a joint. It might not work so well across a very flat taper with Rosewood or other lighter colored…</p>
<p>I fitted a Cumberland Acoustic ebony archtop bridge to a guitar with a top that didn't conform to the standard shape of the bridge--there wasn't enough material at the ends. CA's Steve Smith made me a custom base by attaching additional material to the standard feet so that it fit perfectly. He used CA glue for the joint and it is virtually invisible. Jet black ebony certainly hides such a joint. It might not work so well across a very flat taper with Rosewood or other lighter colored wood. As long as it's in compression, CA should work very well in laminating bridge parts.</p>
<p>Larry</p> Jon,
I don't known if it co…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1411692014-12-26T23:47:24.714ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Jon, </p>
<p> I don't known if it counts but I once added a plate to the bottom of a bridge that had been removed and over thinned. It was ebony and I cleaned it with solvent then glued a new layer to it with thin CA which I quickly clamped for the sake of paranoia. Once it was cleaned up it was completely invisible and worked just fine when put back into service.</p>
<p> If you think about it the tension of the strings, the way they pull on the bridge plate and press on the bridge…</p>
<p>Jon, </p>
<p> I don't known if it counts but I once added a plate to the bottom of a bridge that had been removed and over thinned. It was ebony and I cleaned it with solvent then glued a new layer to it with thin CA which I quickly clamped for the sake of paranoia. Once it was cleaned up it was completely invisible and worked just fine when put back into service.</p>
<p> If you think about it the tension of the strings, the way they pull on the bridge plate and press on the bridge function of a sort of clamp so sheer may be the main issue. Because of this, given my result with a plate on the bottom of the bridge, I would think that a thin "topper" could work too. The one thing to maybe consider is that the glue joint on my repair only disappeared because it was ebony and line was not on a tapered area. I also made sure both surfaces were as flat as I could get them. On a taper, particularly on anything lighter in color than ebony, the glue joint discoloration could be a major issue. I haven't tried this with HHG and it could be that the joint would be better hidden on Rosewood with this glue.</p>
<p>I've played around with building up ebony blanks from old piano keys. I found that thin CA works very well for this as long as the joints are well prepared before hand. I also set everything up so I can apply clamping pressure as soon as the CA is applied. I've made up small planks of Ebony that appear to be a single block this way. It's more trouble than it worth if you have to get paid for the time but it's just the sort of thing a hobbyist can waste time on to his hearts content. </p>
<p></p> Call me picky but the first t…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1411662014-12-26T20:51:31.175ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Call me picky but the first thing I thought of in the <span>Larrivée response was that they are using bridges that are more massive than they need to be. I think the idea of shaving the bridge is fine under the circumstances outlined in the response, given that the bridge was over thick in the first place. If the guitar were mine. I think my preference would have been to have bridge with lower mass to begin with and have the neck reset when it was required. In my limited experience, every…</span></p>
<p>Call me picky but the first thing I thought of in the <span>Larrivée response was that they are using bridges that are more massive than they need to be. I think the idea of shaving the bridge is fine under the circumstances outlined in the response, given that the bridge was over thick in the first place. If the guitar were mine. I think my preference would have been to have bridge with lower mass to begin with and have the neck reset when it was required. In my limited experience, every shaved bridge I've come across only delayed a reset rather than prevented it. I believe I once read where Frank wrote that shaving a bridge usually leads to TWO intrusive repair when the reset, inevitability, needs to happen (paraphrased) and I think this is certainly the case. On cheap guitars it's probably the only good fix when money is involved but most of us understand that these guitars have a pretty limited playing life by design/engineering. I would hope that <span>Larrivées are still around many decades down the road and the point that Hesh makes about original bridges will have more meaning on these instruments. </span> <span><br/></span></span></p>
<p></p> A noteworthy post. I also dis…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1408682014-12-26T19:06:07.507ZAndrewhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Andrew715
A noteworthy post. I also disagree with Larrivee's supposed statement that swelling of the back is the primary cause of a shift in neck angle. Sure, the back will change with time and humidity, but wood doesnt swell very much parallel to the grain, which is the orientation of the neck. So of course its worth knowing all you can about how the shape of the whole body is affecting the neck angle; the condition of the top, back and sides all come into play in some way. The example he gives just…
A noteworthy post. I also disagree with Larrivee's supposed statement that swelling of the back is the primary cause of a shift in neck angle. Sure, the back will change with time and humidity, but wood doesnt swell very much parallel to the grain, which is the orientation of the neck. So of course its worth knowing all you can about how the shape of the whole body is affecting the neck angle; the condition of the top, back and sides all come into play in some way. The example he gives just seems far too generalized for an operation that requires pretty specific consideration. Why not address said swelling if it was the cause? Etc etc.. Except mine.... I don't agre…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1411642014-12-26T15:15:59.568ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Except mine.... I don't agree with any blanket statement that shaving bridges is an OK practice regardless of who may be advocating it.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Sure it's been done for ages and sure even our shop does it too when appropriate for the instrument but a shaved bridge does not in and of itself get one a perfect neck angle. Instead it's a quick-fix substitute for resetting the neck to the proper angle.</p>
<p></p>
<p>What happens when a bridge is shaved on a more valuable instrument…</p>
<p>Except mine.... I don't agree with any blanket statement that shaving bridges is an OK practice regardless of who may be advocating it.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Sure it's been done for ages and sure even our shop does it too when appropriate for the instrument but a shaved bridge does not in and of itself get one a perfect neck angle. Instead it's a quick-fix substitute for resetting the neck to the proper angle.</p>
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<p>What happens when a bridge is shaved on a more valuable instrument instead of dealing the the improper neck angle with a reset is the instrument now has an original.... shaved.... bridge and as such when and if the instrument is properly restored to f*ctory specs the shaved bridge has to be removed and tossed and a new one installed. This is trauma that the instrument did not have to go though had neck angle issues been dealt with with a reset. And in terms of preserving value an original bridge would always be the preference if it can be preserved and has not split, etc.</p>
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<p>Additionally, let's talk about Martin. True Martin has various height bridges available but this was not intended to be a neck angle fix on older instruments only, the other heights were used on new instruments as well looking for another important spec. The other important spec is between the D and G on the face of the bridge Martin is looking for a string height of 1/2". Any less and the instrument will not be as responsive or as loud and any more and the rotational forces on the bridge start to creep up into the territory of possibly encouraging the bridge's trailing edge to lift as well.</p>
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<p>Back tracking shaving bridges is fine when appropriate for the specific instrument but it is a practice that more and more these days is frowned upon when dealing with valuable or potentially one day valuable instruments.</p>
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<p>Not trying to be argumentative but the notion that because others do it never meant squat to me personally. In addition for those of us who do f*ctory warranty work we all also know and have experienced that f*ctories want to reduce the costs associated with liability and warranty repairs so the methods that they will cover or even advocate are not by any means an unbiased, we are MOST concerned with the well being of the instrument point of view. Instead it's at times a quick, cheap fix, next.... and not necessarily the state of the art in conservation and restoration.</p>
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<p>Here's another example - instrument comes in with loose bridge wings. The f*ctory advises and only covers the coin to squirt some new glue under the wings, clamp, and call it good.... When a bridge is lifting the only way that I know for sure that I can guarantee my work and not in the same process have to guarantee the work done before me by the f*ctory is to remove the bridge, clean-up and expand the gluing foot print if expansion is available and it most always is and then reglue with say HHG and the appropriate concerns for using HHG.</p>
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<p>So putting yourselves, ourselves in the shoes of mr and ms customer which way would you prefer your bridge to be repaired if this guitar was your baby? Squirt some glue under the wings and call it good or careful removal, cleaning up the mating surfaces, expanding the mating surfaces if available to do, and then regluing with HHG using knowledge and experience for the handling of the glue?</p>
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<p>So Tadej if you think that Mathew's statement above sets the record straight I beg to differ.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There was also a time in the trade when finger board extensions were routinely cut off at the body joint when reseting the neck. Today folks look at this and consider it a crying shame.....</p>
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<p>Anyway I have to get going I have a bridge to go shave....;)</p> Yeah I thought the same about…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1411632014-12-26T11:43:51.424ZAndrewhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Andrew715
Yeah I thought the same about the apron plane for this job. I might have thought a low angle blade would cause more tearout however, and perhaps not hold up long to ebony? But then I often tend toward higher cutting angles and a finer cut. Most literature agrees that higher angles = more work but less tearout. Thoughts? Perhaps ebony is different in some way. It sounds like you've planed more of it than I have.<br />
<br />
Side note: I do most of my final thicknessing/truing of solidbodies with my Veritas…
Yeah I thought the same about the apron plane for this job. I might have thought a low angle blade would cause more tearout however, and perhaps not hold up long to ebony? But then I often tend toward higher cutting angles and a finer cut. Most literature agrees that higher angles = more work but less tearout. Thoughts? Perhaps ebony is different in some way. It sounds like you've planed more of it than I have.<br />
<br />
Side note: I do most of my final thicknessing/truing of solidbodies with my Veritas LA jack plane :). This is one that I rarely do…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1411592014-12-26T06:28:33.369ZJon Hiltbrandhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JonHiltbrand
<p>This is one that I rarely do and also reserve for unserviceable neck joints. But when I do them I remove most of the material with a toothed blade finger plane and then smooth it out with scrapers. The toothed blade works very well with rosewood and ebony and makes this a very fast job.</p>
<p>Has anyone ever experimented with adding material to the bridge plate (capping) after shaving the bridge? I wonder if this could help keep some of these out of the landfill a little longer. It…</p>
<p>This is one that I rarely do and also reserve for unserviceable neck joints. But when I do them I remove most of the material with a toothed blade finger plane and then smooth it out with scrapers. The toothed blade works very well with rosewood and ebony and makes this a very fast job.</p>
<p>Has anyone ever experimented with adding material to the bridge plate (capping) after shaving the bridge? I wonder if this could help keep some of these out of the landfill a little longer. It wouldn't help with the tone loss that goes along with a bad neck angle, but maybe it would help keep the top stable? I'm just speculating. I've never tried it, but it could be interesting to experiment.</p>
<p></p> Hi Andrew.
I've owned and sti…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1409682014-12-26T02:31:00.243ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p>Hi Andrew.</p>
<p>I've owned and still use their full size low angle block plane for about 10 years. I personally prefer it's functionality & feel over the Lie-Neilsons. Both are, however, superb. :) It's my preferred tool for the initial stock removal when lowering an acoustic bridge. The ability to lock the lateral movement of the Veritas's blade seems to add a psychological assurance to the job.</p>
<p>Now, if their 'Apron Low Angle plane' had an adjustable mouth, it would be…</p>
<p>Hi Andrew.</p>
<p>I've owned and still use their full size low angle block plane for about 10 years. I personally prefer it's functionality & feel over the Lie-Neilsons. Both are, however, superb. :) It's my preferred tool for the initial stock removal when lowering an acoustic bridge. The ability to lock the lateral movement of the Veritas's blade seems to add a psychological assurance to the job.</p>
<p>Now, if their 'Apron Low Angle plane' had an adjustable mouth, it would be "perfect' for this kind of work. And without going 'fanboy', LV/Veritas tools, in my opinion, are still one of the best values in high end tools. I believe we may have some of the same tool dreams :)</p>
<p>I believe the one spec that is vital for a plane for bridge shaving is a low angle blade. That feature greatly reduces the possibility of tear-out.</p>
<p>The squirrel tail planes, unfortunately, are not available low angle models. They are, fortunately, customizable and extremely affordable for other lutherie tasks.</p>
<p>Good stuff :)</p> Yes that one came to mind lol…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-26:2177249:Comment:1408602014-12-26T01:28:40.812ZAndrewhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Andrew715
Yes that one came to mind lol. Im very up to date on Lee Valley stuff. Drool over it all daily. I think that one would be a wee bit small for quick material removal in this case. Probably the flat squirrel tail palm plane would be the best balance of easily manageable size and efficient cutting, but of course this is subjective to the preference of the person doing the work:…<br></br>
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Yes that one came to mind lol. Im very up to date on Lee Valley stuff. Drool over it all daily. I think that one would be a wee bit small for quick material removal in this case. Probably the flat squirrel tail palm plane would be the best balance of easily manageable size and efficient cutting, but of course this is subjective to the preference of the person doing the work:<br/>
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<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=57205&cat=1,41182" target="_blank">http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=57205&cat=1,41182</a><br/>
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One could use a myriad of these little detail planes on a job like this, one for each little function in the process of shaping. If I had my way, Id have the full Lee Valley selection at ready disposal for these situations. And a few Lie Nielsons as well. But of course I like fooling with my tools as much as actually getting things done :P (if not more so!) http://www.leevalley.com/US/W…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-12-25:2177249:Comment:1408572014-12-25T23:16:57.804ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p><a href="http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=70138&cat=1,41182" target="_blank">http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=70138&cat=1,41182</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=70138&cat=1,41182" target="_blank">http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=70138&cat=1,41182</a></p>