Inaccuracy’s with fret rocker? - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T09:34:13Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/inaccuracy-s-with-fret-rocker?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A289283&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi, after a few years of usin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-03-09:2177249:Comment:2892882023-03-09T22:28:14.355ZTaffy Evanshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/TaffyEvans
<p>Hi, after a few years of using the wooden early style of this fretting jig the new model was an interesting proposition, the cost was not so attractive at around $1000,00 landed in Australia. So I made my own version and it works well. For my small workshop volume, I could not justify the cost. It normally has two dial gauges and of course, takes acoustics too.…</p>
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<p>Hi, after a few years of using the wooden early style of this fretting jig the new model was an interesting proposition, the cost was not so attractive at around $1000,00 landed in Australia. So I made my own version and it works well. For my small workshop volume, I could not justify the cost. It normally has two dial gauges and of course, takes acoustics too.</p>
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<p>Cheers Taff</p> I've never thought about slan…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-03-06:2177249:Comment:2892832023-03-06T11:47:04.109ZRoger Häggströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RogerHaeggstroem
<p>I've never thought about slanting the fret rocker along with the strings, but it's a good practice and very easy to do, so I will do that. The difference is maybe in the thousands of a mm though :-)<br></br><br></br>I doubt that strings at tension will compress the fretboard much, the wood is very stiff in the end grain direction. The bending effect on the neck from the tension is way bigger. I really like the neck jig, it works fine for me, and it is also a perfect working table to secure the…</p>
<p>I've never thought about slanting the fret rocker along with the strings, but it's a good practice and very easy to do, so I will do that. The difference is maybe in the thousands of a mm though :-)<br/><br/>I doubt that strings at tension will compress the fretboard much, the wood is very stiff in the end grain direction. The bending effect on the neck from the tension is way bigger. I really like the neck jig, it works fine for me, and it is also a perfect working table to secure the guitar when sanding the fretboard, mounting inlays, repairing splinters and cracks in the fretboard and crowning frets.</p> I'm late to the party here, b…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-03-05:2177249:Comment:2895852023-03-05T20:16:28.674ZEric Gleasonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EricGleason
<p>I'm late to the party here, but I use a fret rocker a lot and find it to be very useful within its limitations.</p>
<p>Mine is older now, and I think I did have to lap one edge to perfect it, but it was pretty good out of the box.</p>
<p>You do have to be extremely careful that the tool is properly aligned. I level my frets conically, following the paths of the strings. So the fret rocker has to be located at the string and follow its path too. </p>
<p>If you level all your frets parallel…</p>
<p>I'm late to the party here, but I use a fret rocker a lot and find it to be very useful within its limitations.</p>
<p>Mine is older now, and I think I did have to lap one edge to perfect it, but it was pretty good out of the box.</p>
<p>You do have to be extremely careful that the tool is properly aligned. I level my frets conically, following the paths of the strings. So the fret rocker has to be located at the string and follow its path too. </p>
<p>If you level all your frets parallel to the center line, then the rocker needs to be parallel to the centerline. A very small misalignment will make it seem like you're on a high fret.</p>
<p>Mike didn't say if he checked that the suspect frets were still seated properly. It's happened to me a couple of times that a fret has popped up after the customer took the guitar. </p>
<p>As for the neck jig... I don't like the way it simulates string tension. Almost all of the force of the strings is compressing the fretboard. I get better results when I level using actual string tension and holding the guitar carefully in the vice in a way that doesn't flex the neck. I had one and stopped using it.</p> Hi, before the days of the St…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-02-06:2177249:Comment:2887182023-02-06T22:48:15.415ZTaffy Evanshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/TaffyEvans
<p>Hi, before the days of the Stumac Fret Rocker, I was using these, cut from stainless steel rulers. I trued up the edges and check them every few years. Works well enough for me, while I still get good buzz-free low-action necks they will last me a bit longer.</p>
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<p>Not as convenient but do the same job...</p>
<p>Cheers…</p>
<p>Hi, before the days of the Stumac Fret Rocker, I was using these, cut from stainless steel rulers. I trued up the edges and check them every few years. Works well enough for me, while I still get good buzz-free low-action necks they will last me a bit longer.</p>
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<p>Not as convenient but do the same job...</p>
<p>Cheers Taff</p> I think Roger phrased it well…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-02-05:2177249:Comment:2886442023-02-05T23:01:04.375ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>I think Roger phrased it well when he said the fret rocker "is a very nearsighted tool". It's great for identifying one suspected tall fret, but that should be about the extent of it.</p>
<p>Personally, I use one for every fret job as it progresses, since identifying a just-installed fret that's not perfectly seated is a lot easier to deal with at the moment, rather than later.... (particularly for those of us who glue:) </p>
<p>Of course, I'll need to check any given fret after the…</p>
<p>I think Roger phrased it well when he said the fret rocker "is a very nearsighted tool". It's great for identifying one suspected tall fret, but that should be about the extent of it.</p>
<p>Personally, I use one for every fret job as it progresses, since identifying a just-installed fret that's not perfectly seated is a lot easier to deal with at the moment, rather than later.... (particularly for those of us who glue:) </p>
<p>Of course, I'll need to check any given fret after the <em>next</em> fret goes-in, since there needs to be a reference for the rocker to "rock"! And even then, it's a gamble to bet <em>that</em> fret is seated right! But at least it forces me to pay attention to good solid seating as I move up the neck.</p> PS: StewMac customer service…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-02-05:2177249:Comment:2887162023-02-05T11:08:00.433ZVictor Crollhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/VictorChristian
<p>PS: StewMac customer service is second to none! Even for a StewMAX account holder based in England! Because of their 'if it is no longer working as it did when you bought it, we will replace it for free' stance! I have been able to sell my backup tools (I used to buy 2 of anything). I can now just get a replacement tool once it is no longer working at 100% capacity! That is a fabulous service...</p>
<p>PS: StewMac customer service is second to none! Even for a StewMAX account holder based in England! Because of their 'if it is no longer working as it did when you bought it, we will replace it for free' stance! I have been able to sell my backup tools (I used to buy 2 of anything). I can now just get a replacement tool once it is no longer working at 100% capacity! That is a fabulous service...</p> I am in England, UK:
I had ex…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-02-05:2177249:Comment:2887132023-02-05T10:53:56.337ZVictor Crollhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/VictorChristian
<p>I am in England, UK:</p>
<p>I had exactly the same problem a few years ago which cost me 2 x refrets I had to redo plus a stack of cash where I had to reimburse another customer half the price of a badly made Warmoth neck! The fret rtocker in question was made by a European company Guitars and Woods (I no longer deal with them after I had the same problem with some of their aluminium radius beams too)! I also had a dodgy StewMac fret rocker that I ordered after the G&W affair. SM…</p>
<p>I am in England, UK:</p>
<p>I had exactly the same problem a few years ago which cost me 2 x refrets I had to redo plus a stack of cash where I had to reimburse another customer half the price of a badly made Warmoth neck! The fret rtocker in question was made by a European company Guitars and Woods (I no longer deal with them after I had the same problem with some of their aluminium radius beams too)! I also had a dodgy StewMac fret rocker that I ordered after the G&W affair. SM reimbursed me and said they woiuld check their stock and I heard nothing else about it. That said, most of my tools are SM and I am more than satisfied with their tools.</p>
<p>Tool brands I use and trust are StewMac, Philadelphia Luthier Tools (both US), Guitar Builder Online (Canada), GMC (Wales UK), Tonetech Pro (England UK). My favoured fret rocker (I have 2) are by GMI (Greece, Europe) made by Haris Bakirtzidis (Halon Guitar Parts: Greece). He no longer makes his GMI tools so you cannot get them but most of my precision stuff was made by him.</p>
<p>Always check your fret rockers with maybe a Veritas (Canada) straight edge...</p> Yes, that was a good read. It…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2022-12-18:2177249:Comment:2872612022-12-18T19:05:08.959ZRoger Häggströmhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RogerHaeggstroem
<p>Yes, that was a good read. It's important to know that a fret rocker is a very near-sighted tool, the neck and fretboard as a whole must have the right shape to begin with. The rocker can only be used to evaluate local problems with high frets.</p>
<p>I might add that I for the most part have the luxury of straighten the neck with a carbon rod and sanding the fretboard to a nice even, small relief before final fretting using the fret press method. The Stewmac jig is a must for me since I…</p>
<p>Yes, that was a good read. It's important to know that a fret rocker is a very near-sighted tool, the neck and fretboard as a whole must have the right shape to begin with. The rocker can only be used to evaluate local problems with high frets.</p>
<p>I might add that I for the most part have the luxury of straighten the neck with a carbon rod and sanding the fretboard to a nice even, small relief before final fretting using the fret press method. The Stewmac jig is a must for me since I don't have a truss rod to adjust the relief, without the jig the relief will be a <span class="HwtZe" xml:lang="en" lang="en"><span class="jCAhz ChMk0b"><span class="ryNqvb">roll of the dice</span></span></span> with strings at tension. The jig is surely not the fastest way to do fretwork, but for me the only way.</p> Hey Paul it's been a while my…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2022-12-18:2177249:Comment:2873362022-12-18T17:47:47.447ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Hey Paul it's been a while my friend. I wanted to answer some of your comments here if I may please.</p>
<p>We start with leveling everything and adding fall-away and then after we have a level set we mill in relief where a specific neck wants it based on how the truss rod impacts the neck when adjusted. We actually do this to the board too before fretting so very little material is removed from the board.</p>
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<p>The method we were teaching when we were having classes pre-covid…</p>
<p>Hey Paul it's been a while my friend. I wanted to answer some of your comments here if I may please.</p>
<p>We start with leveling everything and adding fall-away and then after we have a level set we mill in relief where a specific neck wants it based on how the truss rod impacts the neck when adjusted. We actually do this to the board too before fretting so very little material is removed from the board.</p>
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<p>The method we were teaching when we were having classes pre-covid works to tolerances of a few ten thousandths of an inch using the thickness of bluing/marker ink as our closest tolerances.</p>
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<p>For us it goes down the presence or absence of the ink which we think is a couple ten thousandths thick.</p>
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<p>Now none of this uber accuracy is necessary for most players but we have clients who are pros and want super low action and we can get it for them with our approach. </p>
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<p>What I am describing was developed over some years of trial and error also trying to use the neck jig for the process but we found it slowed us down, was redundant and we can observe tighter tolerances with bluing/ink.</p>
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<p>Happy Holidays to you too Paul</p>
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<p></p> Go to the search box and type…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2022-12-18:2177249:Comment:2872572022-12-18T08:22:23.170ZPaul Verticchiohttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PaulVerticchio
<p>Go to the search box and type in ‘fret rocker’. <br></br>Scroll down to “Topic:<span style="font-size: 26px;"> <span style="font-size: 10pt;">touch up frets advice”. <br></br>This discussion (IMO) remains the definitive science of the proper way to be assured of evenly leveled frets. <br></br>It’s a long but supremely educational discussion. <br></br>The only other bit of opinion I can contribute is that all frets should be leveled after a fret job regardless of the methodology. <br></br>Remember that we work…</span></span></p>
<p>Go to the search box and type in ‘fret rocker’. <br/>Scroll down to “Topic:<span style="font-size: 26px;"> <span style="font-size: 10pt;">touch up frets advice”. <br/>This discussion (IMO) remains the definitive science of the proper way to be assured of evenly leveled frets. <br/>It’s a long but supremely educational discussion. <br/>The only other bit of opinion I can contribute is that all frets should be leveled after a fret job regardless of the methodology. <br/>Remember that we work with tolerances of thousands of an inch. <br/>Our eyes are useless in that realm so we must rely</span></span> <span style="font-size: 26px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">upon</span></span> <span style="font-size: 26px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">me machinist’s approach for assistance. <br/>Everyone be well and have an enjoyable holiday season,</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 26px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Paul</span></span></p>