Re-Fret Issue -- Ends of frets not seating - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T15:41:45Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/re-fret-issue-ends-of-frets-not-seating?x=1&id=2177249%3ATopic%3A185110&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSomething happened to have ch…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1851512019-05-30T19:00:41.094ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>Something happened to have changed the radius of the frets, most likely during the course of removing them....</p>
<p></p>
<p>Something happened to have changed the radius of the frets, most likely during the course of removing them....</p>
<p></p> Some new information: the old…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1849722019-05-30T18:24:41.726Zmr smitshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/mrsmits
<p>Some new information: the old frets don't seat in the slot anymore, either. This is strange. I thought I could just put those back in. But the same issue happens. The ends of the frets won't sit totally flush, but the center does.</p>
<p>When I purchased this neck they were flush. Does this give any clues as to what could be going on?</p>
<p>Some new information: the old frets don't seat in the slot anymore, either. This is strange. I thought I could just put those back in. But the same issue happens. The ends of the frets won't sit totally flush, but the center does.</p>
<p>When I purchased this neck they were flush. Does this give any clues as to what could be going on?</p> Hi All,
We use .023 blades fo…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1848802019-05-30T16:23:27.694ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>We use .023 blades for rosewood and .025 for ebony with our standard fretwires .05590 which is .020 tang and 51108 which is .023 tang. New fret slots around this dimension will give us a slight compression fit which,along with cyanacrylate bedding, is essential to good consistent tone transfer. We use two way truss rods and I like to have to tension a neck into relief to ensure the truss rod the neck and the fundamentals and harmonics stays put when the neck gets a…</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>We use .023 blades for rosewood and .025 for ebony with our standard fretwires .05590 which is .020 tang and 51108 which is .023 tang. New fret slots around this dimension will give us a slight compression fit which,along with cyanacrylate bedding, is essential to good consistent tone transfer. We use two way truss rods and I like to have to tension a neck into relief to ensure the truss rod the neck and the fundamentals and harmonics stays put when the neck gets a pounding.</p>
<p>However, for reconditioning used fret slots I use a narrow pull saw blade as the fret slots are already oversized from extraction (as a general rule) and any help to get some compression back into the neck is a bonus. </p>
<p>My view is that good fret work requires appropriate and quality tools for consistent results. Next time I see my surgeon he won't be using an Exacto knife and a kitchen spatula.</p>
<p>Regards, </p>
<p>Rusty.</p> In a word, yes, a truss rod a…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1849712019-05-30T15:40:17.514ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>In a word, yes, a truss rod adjustment can "fix" a compression backbow, but the idea is to not introduce the backbow in the first place... unless that's what you're intending to do. </p>
<p>A lot of the choice made in fret slot width is dependent on the wood itself. I tend to be a bit generous in width with a hard ebony, but go a little tighter with a softer rosewood. </p>
<p>"Experiment with scrap" is a great mantra. Get some scrap of the fingerboard wood you'll be using and do some…</p>
<p>In a word, yes, a truss rod adjustment can "fix" a compression backbow, but the idea is to not introduce the backbow in the first place... unless that's what you're intending to do. </p>
<p>A lot of the choice made in fret slot width is dependent on the wood itself. I tend to be a bit generous in width with a hard ebony, but go a little tighter with a softer rosewood. </p>
<p>"Experiment with scrap" is a great mantra. Get some scrap of the fingerboard wood you'll be using and do some trial-and-error fitting. </p>
<p>Also, get a great book on fretting! There's lots of experience out there by real pros who were kind-enough to share the wealth. Frank has lots of great advice on frets.com, and then there's this book put out by StewMac.</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2739351655?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2739351655?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p> Ah yeah, I have read about th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1852122019-05-30T15:09:10.415Zmr smitshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/mrsmits
<p>Ah yeah, I have read about the compression in the past. Can a truss rod adjustment fix that?</p>
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<p>Would you go for the larger saw of .025 then? Or would that create the opposite problem where the tang is too loose?</p>
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<p>Ah yeah, I have read about the compression in the past. Can a truss rod adjustment fix that?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Would you go for the larger saw of .025 then? Or would that create the opposite problem where the tang is too loose?</p>
<p></p> My experience has been that s…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1849702019-05-30T14:54:50.288ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>My experience has been that saw kerfs can vary a small bit, regardless of the advertised number. If there are two identical saws, it always seems that one's a bit more or less generous than it's drawer-mate. It never hurts to "mic" the saw kerf before cutting.</p>
<p>Secondly, when determining the slot width, keep in mind that a slightly tighter fit will tend to produce a backbow on the neck. </p>
<p>So if your fret tang is .021" and the saw kerf is .020"... the wood on the side of the…</p>
<p>My experience has been that saw kerfs can vary a small bit, regardless of the advertised number. If there are two identical saws, it always seems that one's a bit more or less generous than it's drawer-mate. It never hurts to "mic" the saw kerf before cutting.</p>
<p>Secondly, when determining the slot width, keep in mind that a slightly tighter fit will tend to produce a backbow on the neck. </p>
<p>So if your fret tang is .021" and the saw kerf is .020"... the wood on the side of the slot has to go somewhere and it gets compressed by a very small amount. Multiply that small amount of compression by 'X' number of frets and there's where an overall backbow is introduced.</p>
<p>This effect can be used to an advantage to help control a somewhat rubbery neck but, in any event, it's a phenomenon to be aware-of.</p>
<p></p> Thanks!
I think I am going to…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-30:2177249:Comment:1851502019-05-30T13:56:29.426Zmr smitshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/mrsmits
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I think I am going to invest in a proper saw because I think what you guys mention about the slot not being fully cleaned, especially on the edges, is probably the issue. Do you think I should do the .020 or .025? The tang of the new fretwire is .021.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Here are the options on stewmac:…</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I think I am going to invest in a proper saw because I think what you guys mention about the slot not being fully cleaned, especially on the edges, is probably the issue. Do you think I should do the .020 or .025? The tang of the new fretwire is .021.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Here are the options on stewmac: <a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Saws/Refret_Saw.html" target="_blank">https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Saws/Refret_Sa...</a></p>
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<p>There is also this option: <a href="https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Saws/Japanese_Fret_Slot_Cleaning_Saw.html" target="_blank">https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Saws/Japanese_Fret_Slot_Cleaning_Saw.html</a></p>
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<p>I'm not sure which would be best so any advice is welcome. Thanks guys.</p> How cheap? Harbor Freight has…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-29:2177249:Comment:1852072019-05-29T12:18:56.711ZMark Foglemanhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MarkFogleman
How cheap? Harbor Freight has a flush cut saw that will get you by if you just need to touch up a few existing slots. Check the kerf on scrap as mine is about 20 years old (the version they have now is probably different) but it mics out to .025" and leaves a clean cut. I find lots of uses for it in the shop so a good tool to have if you don't have one. I use a page from an old phone book when using it as a flush cut saw to protect the surface.
How cheap? Harbor Freight has a flush cut saw that will get you by if you just need to touch up a few existing slots. Check the kerf on scrap as mine is about 20 years old (the version they have now is probably different) but it mics out to .025" and leaves a clean cut. I find lots of uses for it in the shop so a good tool to have if you don't have one. I use a page from an old phone book when using it as a flush cut saw to protect the surface. Thanks all.
I haven't had a c…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-29:2177249:Comment:1849662019-05-29T02:36:52.299Zmr smitshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/mrsmits
<p>Thanks all.</p>
<p>I haven't had a chance to try the suggestions here, but I will soon and report back on what the issue is.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Are the fret saws stewmac sells worth it? If so, they have three sizes -- which is the most useful size? Is there a cheaper option that does the same thing? Thanks!</p>
<p>Thanks all.</p>
<p>I haven't had a chance to try the suggestions here, but I will soon and report back on what the issue is.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Are the fret saws stewmac sells worth it? If so, they have three sizes -- which is the most useful size? Is there a cheaper option that does the same thing? Thanks!</p> Ditto about making sure the s…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2019-05-18:2177249:Comment:1848462019-05-18T15:33:21.568ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>Ditto about making sure the slots are clean & deep-enough. Also, it's a good idea to slightly over-radius the frets themselves so that (when just held up to the fretboard before installing) there's a glint of daylight in the center. </p>
<p>When hammering-in frets, I'll use a rapid succession of short, quick blows and seat the ends first, working in from both sides towards the middle. Once the ends are seated nicely, any 'slack' in the center can work it's way to the outside and the…</p>
<p>Ditto about making sure the slots are clean & deep-enough. Also, it's a good idea to slightly over-radius the frets themselves so that (when just held up to the fretboard before installing) there's a glint of daylight in the center. </p>
<p>When hammering-in frets, I'll use a rapid succession of short, quick blows and seat the ends first, working in from both sides towards the middle. Once the ends are seated nicely, any 'slack' in the center can work it's way to the outside and the frets will creep outward along the existing 'track' of the seated ends. </p>
<p>As with most things, it's probably tougher to describe than actually do! </p>