Repair of Gibson Mandocello top - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T08:30:04Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/repair-of-gibson-mandocello-top?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A85616&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI am actually in Northern BC…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-04-12:2177249:Comment:868252012-04-12T07:04:00.709ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p>I am actually in Northern BC if you were talking to me. Bernie, I sent a friend request to you on here and a PM... </p>
<p>I am actually in Northern BC if you were talking to me. Bernie, I sent a friend request to you on here and a PM... </p> Thanks much for the perspecti…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-04-11:2177249:Comment:867682012-04-11T13:03:24.143ZBernie Danielhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/BernieDaniel
<p>Thanks much for the perspective on this matter. I need to ponder it. Just for information, where in the USA is your shop and do you work on items shipped to you?</p>
<p>Thanks much for the perspective on this matter. I need to ponder it. Just for information, where in the USA is your shop and do you work on items shipped to you?</p> I tend to think you are right…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-04-11:2177249:Comment:866792012-04-11T13:01:46.943ZBernie Danielhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/BernieDaniel
<p>I tend to think you are right about that. OTOH the there would be a larger surface for the bridge to contact the top and it seems intuitively that it might distribute the tension -- but then the total string tension will not change so yes I agree -- unlikely to help. </p>
<p>Also I think I have the same concerns about making a "mess" if I try to pull the back myself. I'd have no one but myself to blame....</p>
<p>I either have to fix this thing or sell it -- I can't stand seeing that top…</p>
<p>I tend to think you are right about that. OTOH the there would be a larger surface for the bridge to contact the top and it seems intuitively that it might distribute the tension -- but then the total string tension will not change so yes I agree -- unlikely to help. </p>
<p>Also I think I have the same concerns about making a "mess" if I try to pull the back myself. I'd have no one but myself to blame....</p>
<p>I either have to fix this thing or sell it -- I can't stand seeing that top like that so it is just laying there with no strings. Right now all I have in the totally original instrument and its original red-line HSC is the $275 that I invested as a graduate student in 1973! (<:</p> Flat on top is not too unusua…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-04-11:2177249:Comment:866782012-04-11T12:41:39.246ZHugh Hansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HughHansen
<p>Flat on top is not too unusual for a K1. As long as you have a good bridge and string height, I'd leave it alone. Once the bridge is all the way up and the strings are too low, then its time for surgery. </p>
<p>Flat on top is not too unusual for a K1. As long as you have a good bridge and string height, I'd leave it alone. Once the bridge is all the way up and the strings are too low, then its time for surgery. </p> Bernie, I can't see how chang…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-04-11:2177249:Comment:868172012-04-11T09:48:15.263ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
<p>Bernie, I can't see how changing the bridge will change a single thing in the sag department, but you probably already figured that out.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the only solution is to redo some bracing inside, and that will involve the back coming off. There are several folks here that will be able to knowledgeably talk you through this if you have not done it before. If it is your 1st time, I would suggest sending it to s real Luthier as there is virtually no chance of doing it so it…</p>
<p>Bernie, I can't see how changing the bridge will change a single thing in the sag department, but you probably already figured that out.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the only solution is to redo some bracing inside, and that will involve the back coming off. There are several folks here that will be able to knowledgeably talk you through this if you have not done it before. If it is your 1st time, I would suggest sending it to s real Luthier as there is virtually no chance of doing it so it will not show. My first one wasn't so much of a mess, but the missing lacquer from were I had to free the binding bothered me till the guitar was sold years later. After the back is off, you can make some decisions, as opposed to figuring that aspect out now. Getting the back off is the important thing. </p> Thanks for the comment. I th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-04-11:2177249:Comment:866762012-04-11T03:56:36.274ZBernie Danielhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/BernieDaniel
<p>Thanks for the comment. I thought I had replied some time ago but maybe it did not upload. </p>
<p>Anyway, the sag on this mandocello is significant in that after several days at pitch it is more or less "flat" across the top like a dinner plate. But as noted if I release the tension it rebounds to essentially a smooth proper contoured top board in a day or two. It still sounds decent -- even as sagged as it is -- but I cannot hardly look at the sunken top without cringing. </p>
<p>One…</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment. I thought I had replied some time ago but maybe it did not upload. </p>
<p>Anyway, the sag on this mandocello is significant in that after several days at pitch it is more or less "flat" across the top like a dinner plate. But as noted if I release the tension it rebounds to essentially a smooth proper contoured top board in a day or two. It still sounds decent -- even as sagged as it is -- but I cannot hardly look at the sunken top without cringing. </p>
<p>One thing I had thought about trying before doing anything with the top was to convert the base of the bridge from a two point contact one to a full contact one by filling in the space with an ebony insert and then refitting the bridge to top. The original bridge on this mandocello is like an F-5 adjustable bridge -- only about double size. But this might help distribute the weight more evenly? Alternatively I could make a one-piece full contact bridge so as not to mess up the original one.</p>
<p>If I did take the back off -- a sobering thought -- I would have lots of options I suppose. For example I could put another transverse brace directly under the bridge? Or Frank Ford fixed a sagging Gibson mandolin by actually adding some additional thin plys of spruce to thicken the top. Or I could devise a set of X-braces.</p> I've X-braced several teens a…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-26:2177249:Comment:861102012-03-26T03:05:42.149ZHugh Hansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HughHansen
<p>I've X-braced several teens and 20's mandolins with sunken tops. So far, it has greatly benefitted both the tone, and the value of the instruments. A mandolin with a collapsing top has little collectible, or utilitarian value, so a well executed repair is your best hope. I'd want to see just how far it's sagging though, before I would recommend this. A lot of these do deflect a fair amount and can function fine this way for many years. What it does to the sound depends a lot on the…</p>
<p>I've X-braced several teens and 20's mandolins with sunken tops. So far, it has greatly benefitted both the tone, and the value of the instruments. A mandolin with a collapsing top has little collectible, or utilitarian value, so a well executed repair is your best hope. I'd want to see just how far it's sagging though, before I would recommend this. A lot of these do deflect a fair amount and can function fine this way for many years. What it does to the sound depends a lot on the size, placement, and angle of the X, as well as the original thickness of the top. </p> Thanks, Bill.
tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-10:2177249:Comment:855752012-03-10T02:46:44.452ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Thanks, Bill.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks, Bill.</p>
<p></p> You got it Ned.Bill.........…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-09:2177249:Comment:853782012-03-09T22:30:14.342ZWilliam F.Edenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/WilliamFEden
<p> You got it Ned.Bill..............</p>
<p> You got it Ned.Bill..............</p> Thanks for all the comments. …tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-09:2177249:Comment:854562012-03-09T19:31:13.258ZBernie Danielhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/BernieDaniel
<p>Thanks for all the comments. I am primarily interested in preserving the tonal character of the instrument -- I'm not really too concerned about the "collector value' of it. </p>
<p>Thus, I am focused on what kind of bracing will both 1) prevent the top sag and 2) still retain the maximum tone and projection of the instrument. My only interest in X-bracing would be if it served to be the best way to maximize those two criteria. </p>
<p>Of course it is kind of impossible to get an answer to…</p>
<p>Thanks for all the comments. I am primarily interested in preserving the tonal character of the instrument -- I'm not really too concerned about the "collector value' of it. </p>
<p>Thus, I am focused on what kind of bracing will both 1) prevent the top sag and 2) still retain the maximum tone and projection of the instrument. My only interest in X-bracing would be if it served to be the best way to maximize those two criteria. </p>
<p>Of course it is kind of impossible to get an answer to this question <em>a priori</em>. I have not yet made contact with the owner of the K-2 that Frank Ford fixed -- but I did send him a PM from the Mandolin Cafe. He posted a video of playing Bach on the instrument on YouTube -- I commented on the video and in his answer he suggested that the extra transverse brace <strong>might</strong> have reduced the volume of the instrument a little but he was not certain of that. </p>
<p>So my question would be would you actually end up with a better sounding mandocello by removing the existing transverse brace and installing X-braces. That is, would X-bracing really be <strong>better</strong> than the situation with two transverse braces?</p>
<p>However, as noted above probably no one is going to know the answer to that in advance -- unless someone has already tried it! (<:</p>
<p></p>
<p>I certainly appreciate the comments - - every bit of information helps!</p>