Thinking of trying leveling beams - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T20:06:55Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/thinking-of-trying-leveling-beams?feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks for all these replies…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-28:2177249:Comment:1295522014-03-28T05:00:25.965Zeliyahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/eliya
<p>Thanks for all these replies Hesh. They're super informative and helpful, and I will keep referring to them. Like you said, some of it just food for thought for me for now, because it's a little on the advanced side of things.</p>
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<p>Speaking of compound radius. How do you level frets on a compound radius neck (I.e., the fretboard has compound radius and so do the frets)? Same way? Just follow the string lines?</p>
<p>Thanks for all these replies Hesh. They're super informative and helpful, and I will keep referring to them. Like you said, some of it just food for thought for me for now, because it's a little on the advanced side of things.</p>
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<p>Speaking of compound radius. How do you level frets on a compound radius neck (I.e., the fretboard has compound radius and so do the frets)? Same way? Just follow the string lines?</p> Thanks, Mr. Breakstone. My pr…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1296922014-03-27T16:31:17.288ZRobbie Collinshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobbieCollins
<p>Thanks, Mr. Breakstone. My procedure is the same except for the reclamping. I've tried it but found it difficult to get the Jaws II in place and screwed down before the superglue hardened on its own. I guess practice makes perfect. Meanwhile, I'm making a Jaws I in my evening machine tools course. I milled the caul body last time out of glass-filled nylon and will slot the lower jaw for the anvil tonight.</p>
<p>Thanks, Mr. Breakstone. My procedure is the same except for the reclamping. I've tried it but found it difficult to get the Jaws II in place and screwed down before the superglue hardened on its own. I guess practice makes perfect. Meanwhile, I'm making a Jaws I in my evening machine tools course. I milled the caul body last time out of glass-filled nylon and will slot the lower jaw for the anvil tonight.</p> No worries! We are all broth…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1296242014-03-27T13:44:03.563ZPhil Jacksonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PhilJackson
<p>No worries! We are all brother and sister luthiers! There are many methods that give good results. And I enjoy the repartee.</p>
<p>But maybe there is a subtle point to be made. I make classical guitars and have no idea of the possible nuances of steel and the truss rod. The relief issue I am sure is a little different. Any comments?</p>
<p>No worries! We are all brother and sister luthiers! There are many methods that give good results. And I enjoy the repartee.</p>
<p>But maybe there is a subtle point to be made. I make classical guitars and have no idea of the possible nuances of steel and the truss rod. The relief issue I am sure is a little different. Any comments?</p> Regarding messing up the radi…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1296232014-03-27T11:51:34.543ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Regarding messing up the radius. Using leveling beams and tracing the string paths imparts a compound radius to the board, a desirable thing for many players.</p>
<p>Regarding messing up the radius. Using leveling beams and tracing the string paths imparts a compound radius to the board, a desirable thing for many players.</p> Not summarily dismissed and i…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1294752014-03-27T11:50:01.655ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Not summarily dismissed and if I gave you this impression my apologies.</p>
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<p>The mental image that I received when reading how you wrote your post was that you were taking a leveling beam and using it in isolation on only one or a couple fret tops.</p>
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<p>That's what I objected to, still do, but you addressed the matter indicating that you endeavor to sand frets in a uniform manner so my mistake and my misread of what you wrote.</p>
<p>Not summarily dismissed and if I gave you this impression my apologies.</p>
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<p>The mental image that I received when reading how you wrote your post was that you were taking a leveling beam and using it in isolation on only one or a couple fret tops.</p>
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<p>That's what I objected to, still do, but you addressed the matter indicating that you endeavor to sand frets in a uniform manner so my mistake and my misread of what you wrote.</p> Hi ya Robbie:
We clamp and p…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1294702014-03-27T11:46:54.977ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Hi ya Robbie:</p>
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<p>We clamp and press our frets using the Jaws II tool and a host of adaptors that we created and shop-made.</p>
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<p>For pesky fret ends we start with over radiused wire and then choose a fret pressing caul with a tighter radius than the board, ever so slightly tighter radius. Now when we press in this fret the ends get more pressure than say in the middle. </p>
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<p>We also run a bead of super thin (fresh thin) CA next to the fret, wait to see it…</p>
<p>Hi ya Robbie:</p>
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<p>We clamp and press our frets using the Jaws II tool and a host of adaptors that we created and shop-made.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For pesky fret ends we start with over radiused wire and then choose a fret pressing caul with a tighter radius than the board, ever so slightly tighter radius. Now when we press in this fret the ends get more pressure than say in the middle. </p>
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<p>We also run a bead of super thin (fresh thin) CA next to the fret, wait to see it wicking up the other side, wipe with acetone, reclamp with the Jaws II tool with over radiused caul, and hit the thing with accelerator. </p>
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<p>Easy peezy, ends down, fret clamped in place and now glued too, next! If you give it some thought too you will determine how to move along the board so that where you spray accelerator does not contaminate the next fret location that you will need to address.</p> Hi Eliya:
Not at all, happy…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1296912014-03-27T11:41:46.365ZHesh Breakstonehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Hi Eliya:</p>
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<p>Not at all, happy to help here, always!</p>
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<p>Ideally on a neck we want to see more relief on the bass strings side. As you may have noticed what we actually see on either new builds or existing guitars is a crap shoot so-to-speak. There may be more relief on the treble side (under string tension...) or sometimes we get lucky and there is more on the bass side.</p>
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<p>Anytime that we are initially fretting a new instrument or an existing instrument…</p>
<p>Hi Eliya:</p>
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<p>Not at all, happy to help here, always!</p>
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<p>Ideally on a neck we want to see more relief on the bass strings side. As you may have noticed what we actually see on either new builds or existing guitars is a crap shoot so-to-speak. There may be more relief on the treble side (under string tension...) or sometimes we get lucky and there is more on the bass side.</p>
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<p>Anytime that we are initially fretting a new instrument or an existing instrument we have the opportunity to address this and often correct the relief issue as need be. And if we can correct things and provide a higher level of precision which is also value for the client why not?</p>
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<p>So simply by supporting the neck in such a manner that we can add pressure downward or upward with our free hand we can impart more or less relief as need be while either milling the frets or leveling the board.</p>
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<p>Mind you this is getting into the idea that really great fret dressing can be an art. But it can be and is in my view so why not do the very best that we can. Don't worry about this step if still confused and get the basics down first though, just introducing food for thought.</p>
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<p>Regarding neck angle, same way of viewing the work. If the guitar is marginal for a neck reset OR the builder on a new build under or over set the neck and does not want to correct it for a small amount of correction how we level and mill frets and the board can address this too.</p>
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<p>If the neck angle is overset we can mill more material from say the 3rd on down (meaning toward the guitar body). This basically also changes the neck angle in terms of the fret tops AND as the strings see the fret plane.</p>
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<p>Conversely an instrument with an underset neck may have most of the fret material that needs to be removed removed in the first several frets region. This can increase neck angle, not for the neck mind you but for the fret plane, again what the strings see.</p>
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<p>These corrections can be very minor or in extreme cases depending on budget and goals for the instrument (on an existing instrument) you can provide some real value to a client by understanding the fret plane, how we might address it with leveling methods, and actually belay for a while the need for a neck reset (again in some circumstances).</p>
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<p>Back to the board leveling - you know don't ya that the better job that we do leveling the board the quicker and easier the fret work goes? It's very true and it's possible and happens often in my world to level the board addressing the issues that we want to address and then when the frets are in the leveling may only take a very few minutes.</p> Phil. My fret method is fairl…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1295362014-03-27T02:11:45.828ZThomas Jameshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ThomasJames
<p>Phil. My fret method is fairly close to yours. Level to 400 - 600 - Steel Wool. No Everclear, but I do use gloves when working with chemicals.</p>
<p>Phil. My fret method is fairly close to yours. Level to 400 - 600 - Steel Wool. No Everclear, but I do use gloves when working with chemicals.</p> Too bad my ideas were so summ…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-27:2177249:Comment:1295352014-03-27T01:48:42.440ZPhil Jacksonhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PhilJackson
<p>Too bad my ideas were so summarily dismissed. I was only talking about new instruments. After leveling the fingerboard, IT IS LEVEL ALREADY - no heavy lifting required when fretting.</p>
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<p>I go ALONG THE FRET, hitting each fret with equal pressure and the same amount of strokes, thereby eliminating the possibility that an individual fret will be different from the rest. I find it easy to do that up to the point of polishing it. It's just my technique and it works every time.</p>
<p>Too bad my ideas were so summarily dismissed. I was only talking about new instruments. After leveling the fingerboard, IT IS LEVEL ALREADY - no heavy lifting required when fretting.</p>
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<p>I go ALONG THE FRET, hitting each fret with equal pressure and the same amount of strokes, thereby eliminating the possibility that an individual fret will be different from the rest. I find it easy to do that up to the point of polishing it. It's just my technique and it works every time.</p> Thanks Hesh for this thorough…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-03-26:2177249:Comment:1294582014-03-26T20:50:14.044Zeliyahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/eliya
<p>Thanks Hesh for this thorough and helpful reply. I read and re-read it and will keep doing it until it sinks in.</p>
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<p>Everything I wrote and asked so far was strictly about leveling frets and not fret boards. Sorry for the confusion. To be honest, if I had to level a fretboard, I'm not sure I'd trust myself with a beam. I'd be worried I'd mess up the radius of the fingerboard.</p>
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<p>Do you mind clarifying these two points? Again, I'm a real novice when it comes to fret…</p>
<p>Thanks Hesh for this thorough and helpful reply. I read and re-read it and will keep doing it until it sinks in.</p>
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<p>Everything I wrote and asked so far was strictly about leveling frets and not fret boards. Sorry for the confusion. To be honest, if I had to level a fretboard, I'm not sure I'd trust myself with a beam. I'd be worried I'd mess up the radius of the fingerboard.</p>
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<p>Do you mind clarifying these two points? Again, I'm a real novice when it comes to fret work, so I want to make sure I understand it right:</p>
<blockquote><p>2) Is the neck correct in so much as more relief on the bass side and less on the treble side?</p>
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<p>By this you mean that the frets are lower on the bass side than the treble side?</p>
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<blockquote><p>3) Is the neck angle correct and if not and if desired I have an opportunity to mill into the frets a bit of correction that can increase not the neck angle but the fret plane angle in respect to the saddle, bridge, etc.</p>
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<p>I feel like this one is strictly about acoustics and electrics with set necks. How would something like that be done? Seems like it would take a lot of effort!</p>
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<p>Thanks again for this post. It's really appreciated.</p>