Torn Wood Grain Under Bridge - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T06:55:56Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/torn-wood-grain-under-bridge?feed=yes&xn_auth=noDavid...If you go back to my…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-18:2177249:Comment:504272011-01-18T13:20:17.834ZDoug Millerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DougMiller
<p>David...If you go back to my original posting...there are 2 pictures showing the tear out. Obviously with book matched top the grain on one half runs down...hence the untorn side and other half it runs up.</p>
<p>My assumption is that the run out grain to the surface with the combined load direction just peeled it out and overloaded the bond on the other side OR could be the grain down side failed and overloaded the grain up side and peeled it</p>
<p>Question for all....Is run out grain like…</p>
<p>David...If you go back to my original posting...there are 2 pictures showing the tear out. Obviously with book matched top the grain on one half runs down...hence the untorn side and other half it runs up.</p>
<p>My assumption is that the run out grain to the surface with the combined load direction just peeled it out and overloaded the bond on the other side OR could be the grain down side failed and overloaded the grain up side and peeled it</p>
<p>Question for all....Is run out grain like this acceptable on such a guitar? especially given the bridge design.</p> Was this tearout caused by se…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-18:2177249:Comment:504252011-01-18T11:38:24.723ZDavid Houchenshttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DavidBryceHouchens
Was this tearout caused by severe runout in the top grain? I would like to see some closeups as well. I don't see any problems with two small screws such as Gibson used for years. ( may still ). It would still be nice to know the original cause.
Was this tearout caused by severe runout in the top grain? I would like to see some closeups as well. I don't see any problems with two small screws such as Gibson used for years. ( may still ). It would still be nice to know the original cause. I will get another assessment…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-17:2177249:Comment:503912011-01-17T22:01:49.190ZDoug Millerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DougMiller
<p>I will get another assessment from another pro repair shop with the hopes they can glue and bolt it with some measure of confidence. If they refuse as did the initial repair shop, then I have the choice of doing it myself or selling the guitar 'as is'</p>
<p>We shall see!</p>
<p>Doug</p>
<p>I will get another assessment from another pro repair shop with the hopes they can glue and bolt it with some measure of confidence. If they refuse as did the initial repair shop, then I have the choice of doing it myself or selling the guitar 'as is'</p>
<p>We shall see!</p>
<p>Doug</p> Please post some pictures her…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-17:2177249:Comment:503892011-01-17T20:29:39.879ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
Please post some pictures here for us when it is finished Doug! It actually seems like this will be a happy ending!
Please post some pictures here for us when it is finished Doug! It actually seems like this will be a happy ending! Thanks everyone...It has been…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-17:2177249:Comment:503772011-01-17T16:54:10.033ZDoug Millerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DougMiller
<p>Thanks everyone...It has been confirmed by the builder that in his opinion the only acceptable repair is a $3000 top replacement. Not going to happen!</p>
<p>So given I have nothing to loose, I will proceed with the approach of replacing the missing wood, then glue and bolt the bridge in place according to Mike Kolb's directions with the comfort of knowing I won't be going through this again.</p>
<p>I can then get on with playing this most wonderful guitar.</p>
<p>Doug</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks everyone...It has been confirmed by the builder that in his opinion the only acceptable repair is a $3000 top replacement. Not going to happen!</p>
<p>So given I have nothing to loose, I will proceed with the approach of replacing the missing wood, then glue and bolt the bridge in place according to Mike Kolb's directions with the comfort of knowing I won't be going through this again.</p>
<p>I can then get on with playing this most wonderful guitar.</p>
<p>Doug</p>
<p> </p> Doug, don't feel pressured to…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-15:2177249:Comment:503272011-01-15T18:08:15.309ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
Doug, don't feel pressured to name him at all. I am sure he is a terrific builder and it certainly won't do anything to help your piece of mind, his reputation, OR get the work done. We don't need to know is what I'm saying. I would ask him directly though, about the getting the bolts put through after the work is done. He may or may not agree that it is needed, but it will give YOU piece of mind that it won't happen again. So it will be $200 well spent my friend.
Doug, don't feel pressured to name him at all. I am sure he is a terrific builder and it certainly won't do anything to help your piece of mind, his reputation, OR get the work done. We don't need to know is what I'm saying. I would ask him directly though, about the getting the bolts put through after the work is done. He may or may not agree that it is needed, but it will give YOU piece of mind that it won't happen again. So it will be $200 well spent my friend. I have talked to him...he say…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-15:2177249:Comment:503262011-01-15T17:59:16.799ZDoug Millerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DougMiller
<p>I have talked to him...he says a good repairman can handle it..route it out and replace the tear with new wood etc.....or for $1000 he would put a new top on...meanwhile he says he does not do repairs..not sure what you call a top replacement then. He builds a big line of guitars all using the same pegless bridge style and claims no problems.</p>
<p>When I expressed my dissapointment with his response, he said give him a few days to reconsider.</p>
<p>Several top musicians play his…</p>
<p>I have talked to him...he says a good repairman can handle it..route it out and replace the tear with new wood etc.....or for $1000 he would put a new top on...meanwhile he says he does not do repairs..not sure what you call a top replacement then. He builds a big line of guitars all using the same pegless bridge style and claims no problems.</p>
<p>When I expressed my dissapointment with his response, he said give him a few days to reconsider.</p>
<p>Several top musicians play his instruments and I would rather not name him unless we cannot come to reasonable terms and I am left to repair it.</p> Plus 1 for what Mike just wro…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-15:2177249:Comment:503232011-01-15T17:21:51.230ZKerry Krishnahttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/KerryKrishna
Plus 1 for what Mike just wrote. This is exactly how I do it also. Doug, have you talked to the builder about this yet, or maybe I should ask if you are going too? No good to presume anything on Forums like this eh?
Plus 1 for what Mike just wrote. This is exactly how I do it also. Doug, have you talked to the builder about this yet, or maybe I should ask if you are going too? No good to presume anything on Forums like this eh? Hi Doug... my standard proced…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-15:2177249:Comment:503172011-01-15T16:11:31.528ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>Hi Doug... my standard procedure these days (if the bolting is needed and gets approved) is 2 bolts to the rear of the pins, one placed behind and between the E and the A pins, and another between the B and E pins (picture a "triangle" on each placement... with the pin holes as 2 points and the bridge bolt as the 3rd).</p>
<p>I'll first drill a hole (with a sharp brad-point drill) .250" in diameter, about .250" deep, followed by a .110" hole in the center of the larger hole, through the…</p>
<p>Hi Doug... my standard procedure these days (if the bolting is needed and gets approved) is 2 bolts to the rear of the pins, one placed behind and between the E and the A pins, and another between the B and E pins (picture a "triangle" on each placement... with the pin holes as 2 points and the bridge bolt as the 3rd).</p>
<p>I'll first drill a hole (with a sharp brad-point drill) .250" in diameter, about .250" deep, followed by a .110" hole in the center of the larger hole, through the bridge. These two holes (for each bolt, of course) will accommodate the 4-40 machine screw shaft and head, leaving a fair am't for plugging the hole when done. Make sure the holes will go through the bridge plate, which serves well as an anchoring point. Back-up the bridge plate with a hardwood block when drilling, to prevent split-out.</p>
<p>On the underside, install a flat washer, a lock washer and a nut. The best luck for me these days, though, comes with using a flat washer and a nylon-plug locknut with a drop of Loctite. Holds like crazy.</p>
<p>Two bolts toward the rear of the bridge seems to be plenty. That's where all the force is directed and they do little to disrupt the comings and goings of string changes. I keep a variety of lengths handy, but will usually end-up using 3/4" or 7/8" lengths to accommodate the thicknesses of everything and still leave room for the washer and nut but every case is a little different.</p>
<p>It's not a substitute for a good glue job, but it sure lends a helping hand to problematic cases (read: 12-strings!) and any other guitars where conditions for reattachment of the bridge are less than ideal.</p>
<p>On a personal note, I bought a used Martin B1 bass from a guy and got a great price because the bridge was lifting from string tension. I removed the bridge, reglued it, bolted it down and filled the holes with ebony plugs. That was 4 years ago and the bridge has not budged since, nor can the holes be seen readily and the bass sounds as good as it ever did. </p> In order to remove the pulled…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2011-01-15:2177249:Comment:503062011-01-15T04:36:41.097ZDoug Millerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DougMiller
<p>In order to remove the pulled up bridge with grain attached to it I had to cross cut the grain so it did not pull grain up beyond the bridge area.</p>
<p>I'm starting to think the idea of bolting the bridge down might be a good idea....not sure how many bolts I could get in and if I need extra wood under the top.</p>
<p>Perhaps Mike could give me more info on how he has bolted bridges.</p>
<p>In order to remove the pulled up bridge with grain attached to it I had to cross cut the grain so it did not pull grain up beyond the bridge area.</p>
<p>I'm starting to think the idea of bolting the bridge down might be a good idea....not sure how many bolts I could get in and if I need extra wood under the top.</p>
<p>Perhaps Mike could give me more info on how he has bolted bridges.</p>