Vega Parlor - Neck Reset / Unusual Neck Joint - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T23:30:38Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/vega-parlor-neck-reset-unusual-neck-joint?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A80502&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSteve, I get the impression y…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-10:2177249:Comment:856262012-03-10T15:51:22.176ZEric Steven Johansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EricStevenJohansen
<p>Steve, I get the impression your joint has expansion/contraction issues from age. A thin veneer of Rosewood in the two sides of the joint should correct that. They will need to be paper thin so as not to raise the neck up out of the joint. Using rosewood will make them invisible once your completed.</p>
<p>Steve, I get the impression your joint has expansion/contraction issues from age. A thin veneer of Rosewood in the two sides of the joint should correct that. They will need to be paper thin so as not to raise the neck up out of the joint. Using rosewood will make them invisible once your completed.</p> ok, so these are a some great…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-09:2177249:Comment:854552012-03-09T17:53:22.437ZSteve Bakerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/SteveBaker
<p>ok, so these are a some great points. Scale length will be taken into account but honestly I'm not even there yet. My biggest blind spot with this one is just the fact that when i go to put the neck into the body there is just a looseness of everything that I'm just not comfortable with. When I do traditional martin neck reset or any dovetail joint i get to a point that glue might not even be needed. The joint itself just aligns thing up and locks everything into place. I still feel like I'm…</p>
<p>ok, so these are a some great points. Scale length will be taken into account but honestly I'm not even there yet. My biggest blind spot with this one is just the fact that when i go to put the neck into the body there is just a looseness of everything that I'm just not comfortable with. When I do traditional martin neck reset or any dovetail joint i get to a point that glue might not even be needed. The joint itself just aligns thing up and locks everything into place. I still feel like I'm missing something here. If I were to even just dry clamp this guy right now I wouldn't be able to trust things staying put let alone with glue in there and things start really squirming around. It almost seems that ill need a long bar clamp to go heal of neck/to butt of body while i put downward pressure on the fingerboard. But i know thats not right. I appreciate all the help guys. but I need some more </p>
<p>Oh by the way. The fingerboard is now glued onto the heal. picture makes it look a bit more unaligned then it really is. All that stuff Im not worried about. It'll look great. Im just needing help with the dovetail stuff</p> Your shim dimensions are need…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-09:2177249:Comment:854482012-03-09T08:46:30.642ZEric Steven Johansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EricStevenJohansen
<p>Your shim dimensions are needing to be based on scale length so if adding .090" at the top of the heal sets your bridge saddle the correct distance from the nut then thats the correct size. I've found most of these resets need a significant amount of scale length correction so .090 does not sound extreme to me but the tape won't lie. Once you've set the scale mark the face of the body on the heal so you can touch up the unfinished exposed wood before resetting. Also in your photo it seems…</p>
<p>Your shim dimensions are needing to be based on scale length so if adding .090" at the top of the heal sets your bridge saddle the correct distance from the nut then thats the correct size. I've found most of these resets need a significant amount of scale length correction so .090 does not sound extreme to me but the tape won't lie. Once you've set the scale mark the face of the body on the heal so you can touch up the unfinished exposed wood before resetting. Also in your photo it seems the fretboard extension has just a touch of space between it and the top at the body join, that's good because you may have room to lower the neck into the mortise just a touch and that will tighten things up just a bit. Nice progress so far.</p> Isn't this shim going to leav…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-09:2177249:Comment:855982012-03-09T02:40:46.687ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Isn't this shim going to leave a VERY large fret slot at the joint? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I haven't tried to reset a neck joint like this so I'm confused as to why you are not re-cutting the heel instead of inserting a wedge.</p>
<p>Isn't this shim going to leave a VERY large fret slot at the joint? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I haven't tried to reset a neck joint like this so I'm confused as to why you are not re-cutting the heel instead of inserting a wedge.</p> Steve, have you considered th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-08:2177249:Comment:855942012-03-08T20:38:56.719ZGreg Mirkenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/GregMirken
Steve, have you considered the intonation ramification of lengthening the scale .090"?
Steve, have you considered the intonation ramification of lengthening the scale .090"? This is all really helpful Er…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-03-08:2177249:Comment:855542012-03-08T20:17:40.348ZSteve Bakerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/SteveBaker
<p>This is all really helpful Eric & Frank, thanks. We've reinforced the top/headblock area & are nearly ready to glue it up.</p>
<p>When we received the guitar, the neck angle was way off - aimed at the very bottom of the bridge - not just the middle. The angle needs to change quite a bit; so here is is the tapered neck shim we made - from .030" to .090". It fits nicely in the pocket, but the Martin neck-setter in me is just not comfortable that there's no tapered dovetail to hold the…</p>
<p>This is all really helpful Eric & Frank, thanks. We've reinforced the top/headblock area & are nearly ready to glue it up.</p>
<p>When we received the guitar, the neck angle was way off - aimed at the very bottom of the bridge - not just the middle. The angle needs to change quite a bit; so here is is the tapered neck shim we made - from .030" to .090". It fits nicely in the pocket, but the Martin neck-setter in me is just not comfortable that there's no tapered dovetail to hold the neck still and in-place. It feels so wobbly when I hold it together. <a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167736449?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167736449?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p></p>
<p>Then there's the matter of the newly exposed finish line along the outer seam...</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167737766?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167737766?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>Would I be better to use a thinner shim - only at the top, and remove a little more material from the bottom of the tenon - pulling the heel further in?</p> Here's one more picture.tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-02-04:2177249:Comment:839822012-02-04T16:26:44.568ZEric Steven Johansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EricStevenJohansen
<p>Here's one more picture.<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167735707?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167735707?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>Here's one more picture.<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167735707?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167735707?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p> Downward pressure is all that…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-02-04:2177249:Comment:838962012-02-04T16:25:26.292ZEric Steven Johansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EricStevenJohansen
<p>Downward pressure is all that is needed as long as you have a tight fit. I press the neck into the block by hand (two flat surfaces mating) and then clamp. The real strength of this joint comes from the sides of the heal anyway. It would be unusual to find the need to shim the sides of this type of joint if it had been fit correctly in the beginning as your not removing much wood to achieve the correct set.</p>
<p>One added note. Unless you are replacing the bridge, check the scale length…</p>
<p>Downward pressure is all that is needed as long as you have a tight fit. I press the neck into the block by hand (two flat surfaces mating) and then clamp. The real strength of this joint comes from the sides of the heal anyway. It would be unusual to find the need to shim the sides of this type of joint if it had been fit correctly in the beginning as your not removing much wood to achieve the correct set.</p>
<p>One added note. Unless you are replacing the bridge, check the scale length nut to saddle as that will help in determining the correct headblock shim size.</p>
<p>Just began work on a Vega here in the shop. Not as nice as yours and in serious need of repair. Photos attached.<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167735707?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2167737196?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p> Eric,
So, You never use a…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-02-04:2177249:Comment:838802012-02-04T15:53:53.823ZSteve Bakerhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/SteveBaker
<p>Eric, </p>
<p> So, You never use any shim material on the sides of the "dovetail" only in the "butt" side? I've done hundreds of neck resets on old martins and I'm just having trouble visualizing how the male portion of this joint will pull into the female side for a good tight joint. I feel like I'm missing something here..</p>
<p>Eric, </p>
<p> So, You never use any shim material on the sides of the "dovetail" only in the "butt" side? I've done hundreds of neck resets on old martins and I'm just having trouble visualizing how the male portion of this joint will pull into the female side for a good tight joint. I feel like I'm missing something here..</p> I use a combination of a thin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2012-02-04:2177249:Comment:838792012-02-04T06:37:15.575ZEric Steven Johansenhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/EricStevenJohansen
<p>I use a combination of a thin tapered shim between the neck heal and the block, and minimal removal at the bottom of the heal to achieve the correct angle. Be careful to maintain the original orientation vis a vis centerline since the butt joint is the controlling factor here. From your photo I would be inclined to make one suggestion to you, that before setting the neck you should consider reinforcing the headblock to top connection. The headblocks on these are notoriously thin to begin…</p>
<p>I use a combination of a thin tapered shim between the neck heal and the block, and minimal removal at the bottom of the heal to achieve the correct angle. Be careful to maintain the original orientation vis a vis centerline since the butt joint is the controlling factor here. From your photo I would be inclined to make one suggestion to you, that before setting the neck you should consider reinforcing the headblock to top connection. The headblocks on these are notoriously thin to begin with and some of that joint is greatly compromised on your guitar. In a case like this I liked to add a shaped cleat ( spruce with the grain running perpendicular to the top ) that extends about 1/2" past the block on each side and tightly fit against the block to reinforce the connection. As far as the dovetail idea may I suggest you think about how hard it was to disassemble this joint. Does it really need to be improved? For clamping I've never needed more than the one "C" clamp pushing the neck down into the joint. Just watch your dry fit. If it's good you're golden.</p>