Vertical Sliding Dovetail / Locking Dado Neck Reset - How to keep joint and change angle? - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T02:13:03Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/vertical-sliding-dovetail-locking-dado-neck-reset-how-to-keep-1?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A172848&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks, Chris, for getting ba…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-27:2177249:Comment:2939002023-08-27T20:42:27.366ZMike Semenockhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeSemenock
<p>Thanks, Chris, for getting back to me on this after two weeks or more. I appreciate it.</p>
<p>Mike</p>
<p>Thanks, Chris, for getting back to me on this after two weeks or more. I appreciate it.</p>
<p>Mike</p> For some reason, I answered t…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-27:2177249:Comment:2938062023-08-27T15:35:49.896ZChris Nhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChrisN270
<p>For some reason, I answered this question in a different response (8:07 pm), but here's what I said (it remains the best I can do on this one):</p>
<p></p>
<p>"As for your shimming question - I took material away from the heel bottom (where the heel meets the guitar top), so no shimming involved. I removed material there, then notched the tenon to allow the neck to come back a bit while remaining largely intact. I may have misunderstood your question re: shimming, however."</p>
<p>While I…</p>
<p>For some reason, I answered this question in a different response (8:07 pm), but here's what I said (it remains the best I can do on this one):</p>
<p></p>
<p>"As for your shimming question - I took material away from the heel bottom (where the heel meets the guitar top), so no shimming involved. I removed material there, then notched the tenon to allow the neck to come back a bit while remaining largely intact. I may have misunderstood your question re: shimming, however."</p>
<p>While I did not shim any part of the mortise/tenon, I did, as mentioned elsewhere, add a little shim material (mahogany) to the guitar's top due to a little tearout from when the neck came off.</p> Gee, I can't relate to that,…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-14:2177249:Comment:2936612023-08-14T02:03:25.510ZChris Nhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChrisN270
<p>Gee, I can't relate to that, AT ALL [insert sarcasm emoji]. Nope, I do the same thing, but I've always been attracted to the mechanical aspects of things - guitars just happen to provide multiple benefits, rather the narrower range I'm used to. I'm a recovering motorcycle addict, as well, and I always did way more wrenching, than riding.</p>
<p>Gee, I can't relate to that, AT ALL [insert sarcasm emoji]. Nope, I do the same thing, but I've always been attracted to the mechanical aspects of things - guitars just happen to provide multiple benefits, rather the narrower range I'm used to. I'm a recovering motorcycle addict, as well, and I always did way more wrenching, than riding.</p> Thanks. I'm aware of the calc…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-14:2177249:Comment:2937232023-08-14T01:38:38.107ZMike Semenockhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeSemenock
<p>Thanks. I'm aware of the calculators online for the heel angle. I do probably too much research into guitar mechanics and repair, and not enough practicing/playing. Just how my mind works.</p>
<p>Thanks. I'm aware of the calculators online for the heel angle. I do probably too much research into guitar mechanics and repair, and not enough practicing/playing. Just how my mind works.</p> Re: Truss rod end - I don't…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-14:2177249:Comment:2934802023-08-14T01:17:45.434ZChris Nhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChrisN270
<p>Re: Truss rod end - I don't recall seeing it exposed, so I'm guessing it's buried under the fretboard and in the joint base. That was another concern I had about simply doing a bolt-on neck by sawing it off - what happens to the truss rod when you're done? Or does the cut avoid the truss rod? I don't know.</p>
<p>Apart from the joint, the reset requires you to use tried/true formulae to calculate how much of the heel to remove. Keep in mind you'll be removing a little wedge with the…</p>
<p>Re: Truss rod end - I don't recall seeing it exposed, so I'm guessing it's buried under the fretboard and in the joint base. That was another concern I had about simply doing a bolt-on neck by sawing it off - what happens to the truss rod when you're done? Or does the cut avoid the truss rod? I don't know.</p>
<p>Apart from the joint, the reset requires you to use tried/true formulae to calculate how much of the heel to remove. Keep in mind you'll be removing a little wedge with the thickest part at the back, and getting thinner as you move to the fretboard. You have to calculate the wedge size as a function of your desired action range and anticipated saddle height. I forget what I did, but I had to calculate so as to allow me the maximum safe saddle height (for tone) with my preferred low action (4/64 on E, 3/64 on e). It worked out great. Do understand that process, though!</p>
<p>Jeff Suits was also helpful to me in tuning my Bridge Doctor for best tone. Thanks Jeff.</p> Thanks again, Chris. Very hel…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-14:2177249:Comment:2934792023-08-14T00:46:26.525ZMike Semenockhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeSemenock
<p>Thanks again, Chris. Very helpful. It seems I've seen other Conn neck joints on the web just lately. Where they were hiding, I don't know. I thought about getting the joint X-rayed, but blew the idea off until I saw such X-rays a guy had done by his veterinarian! I may just see if I can get that done.</p>
<p>Back to one of my questions; the truss rod end must be captured in the heel because it doesn't show in your photos, or any other shots I've seen for that matter. Makes sense, but I…</p>
<p>Thanks again, Chris. Very helpful. It seems I've seen other Conn neck joints on the web just lately. Where they were hiding, I don't know. I thought about getting the joint X-rayed, but blew the idea off until I saw such X-rays a guy had done by his veterinarian! I may just see if I can get that done.</p>
<p>Back to one of my questions; the truss rod end must be captured in the heel because it doesn't show in your photos, or any other shots I've seen for that matter. Makes sense, but I thought I'd see the end of the truss rod.</p>
<p>Seems like I could get the neck reset done. I'll probably try it on a junk Guitar or two just for experience. No guts, no glory. Even if I fry the Conn, but I doubt it; the gold plated Grover tuners are worth $50. Never mind that. I'm keeping a positive attitude!</p>
<p>Also thanks to Jeffrey Suits for some great input to this thread.</p>
<p>Thanks again,</p>
<p>Mike </p>
<p></p> While it's likely your dread…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-13:2177249:Comment:2934782023-08-13T15:57:03.806ZChris Nhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChrisN270
<p>While it's likely your dread has the same neck joint (Conn I think used different Japanese factories at various points in time, and your dread is technically a different animal from my OM, so who knows), I'm not sure that's guaranteed to be the case, so proceed slowly. </p>
<p>Following my loosening of the fretboard extension, I protected the laminated body around the neck, soundboard, and body top with foil-covered cardboard as shown in the pics in hopes that material would absorb the heat…</p>
<p>While it's likely your dread has the same neck joint (Conn I think used different Japanese factories at various points in time, and your dread is technically a different animal from my OM, so who knows), I'm not sure that's guaranteed to be the case, so proceed slowly. </p>
<p>Following my loosening of the fretboard extension, I protected the laminated body around the neck, soundboard, and body top with foil-covered cardboard as shown in the pics in hopes that material would absorb the heat I was applying to the fretboard. In addition to heating the fretboard (and, thereby, the joint/glue), and body top around the joint (bags of hot water), I believe I also used a heat gun on the heel, but now don't really recall. In every case, though, I didn't hold the gun any particular place for "too long" for fear of loosening heel pieces, scorching wood, etc. This was a fairly laborious and time consuming process, but I went slowly because I had no idea what the joint looked like, so I didn't know what to push/pull/twist. Yours should go faster. I believe I secured the neck in a soft-jawed vise to hold the guitar while I pulled/twisted on the body. It took a while, but eventually things started to move, which was very satisfying. And, I didn't delaminate or otherwise hurt anything. Guess I'd rather be lucky than good!</p>
<p>I should note that I believe I did add some mahogany shim material to the guitar top under the heel due to a little tear-out when the joint let go, to build it back up. Could have skipped it, as the deficit wasn't much, but I had the material so went ahead. The tear-out was either inevitable due to the age/lamination, or I should have applied more heat to the heel/top area before separating (but I was nervous about overheating it).</p>
<p>My Conn remains a great (to me) guitar I have no intention of moving on.</p> Thanks for your thoughtful re…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-13:2177249:Comment:2935752023-08-13T06:42:17.373ZMike Semenockhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeSemenock
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful response, Chris. I've done some refurbishment on a 1977 Suzuki F120 12 string, including a bridge backup plate out of maple and it turned out well. But I was wary of resetting the Conn because a reset is a bigger project and the neck joint was a mystery until now. I have a JLD Bridge Doctor I got for an 80s Alvarez 12 string, and it really needs it. But the Conn soundboard still looks flat.</p>
<p>Congratulations on your successful reset, and it's good to know the…</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful response, Chris. I've done some refurbishment on a 1977 Suzuki F120 12 string, including a bridge backup plate out of maple and it turned out well. But I was wary of resetting the Conn because a reset is a bigger project and the neck joint was a mystery until now. I have a JLD Bridge Doctor I got for an 80s Alvarez 12 string, and it really needs it. But the Conn soundboard still looks flat.</p>
<p>Congratulations on your successful reset, and it's good to know the Conn was worth the effort. I've read a lot of good comments about them online. I'm looking forward to having mine easier to play and comparing the Conn to the Seagull.</p>
<p>Mike </p> Mike,
6 years on from the res…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-13:2177249:Comment:2937222023-08-13T03:07:26.144ZChris Nhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChrisN270
<p>Mike,</p>
<p>6 years on from the reset I described above, the guitar remains perfect. Action hasn't budged. Not gluing the fretboard end didn't seem to hurt anything (but I'd probably glue it next time, so the sound board carried some of the neck load, but still, nothing's moved, so who knows?). No fret buzz. I've got other guitars, but the Conn was lightly built and resonates well. I should note that I'd previously added a JLD Bridge Doctor to reduce the belly that a light build can…</p>
<p>Mike,</p>
<p>6 years on from the reset I described above, the guitar remains perfect. Action hasn't budged. Not gluing the fretboard end didn't seem to hurt anything (but I'd probably glue it next time, so the sound board carried some of the neck load, but still, nothing's moved, so who knows?). No fret buzz. I've got other guitars, but the Conn was lightly built and resonates well. I should note that I'd previously added a JLD Bridge Doctor to reduce the belly that a light build can produce and the belly remains flat, while sounding great. I've got a nice Taylor I'd sell before I sold the Conn. I expect your Conn Martin dread knockoff will be well worth your time/effort, and you'll learn a bunch, too.</p>
<p>As for your shimming question - I took material away from the heel bottom (where the heel meets the guitar top), so no shimming involved. I removed material there, then notched the tenon to allow the neck to come back a bit while remaining largely intact. I may have misunderstood your question re: shimming, however.</p>
<p>While not due for a reset yet, your post-2005 Seagull has a service-unfriendly neck joint. Prior to 2005, they were a bolt-on neck w/glued fingerboard - easy/peasy reset. I'm betting your Conn will sound better.</p>
<p>Best of luck with the project!</p>
<p>Chris</p> Chris,
Did you do any shimmin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2023-08-12:2177249:Comment:2936602023-08-12T23:28:39.706ZMike Semenockhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeSemenock
<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Did you do any shimming because of the neck angle change or the distance from the saddle due to the neck pivoting on the bottom of the heel away from the saddle?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Mike</p>
<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Did you do any shimming because of the neck angle change or the distance from the saddle due to the neck pivoting on the bottom of the heel away from the saddle?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Mike</p>