Would you pay 3000 bucks for this? - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T04:40:58Zhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/would-you-pay-3000-bucks-for-this?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A161689&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noYep, that's correct; my ob…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-18:2177249:Comment:1616892016-07-18T16:42:59.920ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Yep, that's correct; my observation was that the pre existing trench and glue job which was done during production was not a satisfactory procedure for an expensive guitar. And, without being precious about this, it's not satisfactory on an inexpensive guitar. These are things that are creeping into modern guitar making which both damage the reputation of once fine makers and disappoint customers.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p> Rusty.</p>
<p>Yep, that's correct; my observation was that the pre existing trench and glue job which was done during production was not a satisfactory procedure for an expensive guitar. And, without being precious about this, it's not satisfactory on an inexpensive guitar. These are things that are creeping into modern guitar making which both damage the reputation of once fine makers and disappoint customers.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p> Rusty.</p> If I read it right, Russell r…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-18:2177249:Comment:1616862016-07-18T14:41:31.945ZMike Kolbhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MikeKolb
<p>If I read it right, Russell received the guitar with the existing trench for the bridge. It was poorly-glued, had pulled-out and needed to be redone.</p>
<p>Since the trench was pre-existing, he just 'kissed' the depth of the trench for a clean surface and reglued the bridge with Titebond.</p>
<p>And if I didn't understand correctly, I'm certain he'll set us both straight! </p>
<p>If I read it right, Russell received the guitar with the existing trench for the bridge. It was poorly-glued, had pulled-out and needed to be redone.</p>
<p>Since the trench was pre-existing, he just 'kissed' the depth of the trench for a clean surface and reglued the bridge with Titebond.</p>
<p>And if I didn't understand correctly, I'm certain he'll set us both straight! </p> Hi Russ- Maby Im missing some…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-18:2177249:Comment:1613572016-07-18T13:34:32.180ZDonald A. Fortunehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DonaldAFortune
<p>Hi Russ- Maby Im missing something here but I cant see a reason for a trench to put the bridge in - can you enlighten me?</p>
<p>Peace - Donald</p>
<p>Hi Russ- Maby Im missing something here but I cant see a reason for a trench to put the bridge in - can you enlighten me?</p>
<p>Peace - Donald</p> I understand, Rusty. It sound…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-13:2177249:Comment:1615982016-07-13T16:58:48.409ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>I understand, Rusty. It sounds like shoddy work all the way around and isn't much better than applying glue tape then slapping the bridge on. In fact, what you posted looks like an attempt to hide the gap that glue tape leaves behind by routing it into the top. </p>
<p>What I'm wondering is if anyone sees any major structural issues in doing it this way IF they had properly fitted the bridge and used a better glue, which seems to be what you ended up doing. I'm not crazy about the ides of…</p>
<p>I understand, Rusty. It sounds like shoddy work all the way around and isn't much better than applying glue tape then slapping the bridge on. In fact, what you posted looks like an attempt to hide the gap that glue tape leaves behind by routing it into the top. </p>
<p>What I'm wondering is if anyone sees any major structural issues in doing it this way IF they had properly fitted the bridge and used a better glue, which seems to be what you ended up doing. I'm not crazy about the ides of having the top cut across the grain but, as I said earlier, I've seen plenty of repairs that deal with cross grain breaks and cuts that work just fine. </p>
<p>One of the reasons I'm asking is because I always struggle to hold my bridge position when I glue them on. Double or triple layers of tape on the outline help but it always manages to creep a bit as I clamp it into place anyway and I end up trying to race the glue setup (usually HHG) to get everything clamped and aligned.</p>
<p> I have noticed that it's not so hard with "cold" glue so I think that part of this is because the glue I prefer goes on hot and seems more likely to loosen the edges of the tape because of the heat ( not to mention that HHG is just slimy to begin with.) </p>
<p>This technique, with the corrections you made appears to be something that might do a better job of holding the position during clamp up. That's why I was asking if anyone had any major concerns with routing a "trench" like this as long as the bridge was fitted to it ( with an overlap all the way around) and better glue was applied.</p> Hi Ned,
The problem here is t…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-12:2177249:Comment:1614692016-07-12T22:49:44.441ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Ned,</p>
<p>The problem here is that the bridge actually didin't sit in the trench - it sat on top of the trench so to start with the glue had to bridge a 1 to 1.5 mm gap. If they had put enough expanding glue in the trench it would have held on maybe. You observation is valid however if they had used a couple of two inch nails or some tech screws your observation would be equally as valid - my question was about the build quality and design being appropriate to the cost and…</p>
<p>Hi Ned,</p>
<p>The problem here is that the bridge actually didin't sit in the trench - it sat on top of the trench so to start with the glue had to bridge a 1 to 1.5 mm gap. If they had put enough expanding glue in the trench it would have held on maybe. You observation is valid however if they had used a couple of two inch nails or some tech screws your observation would be equally as valid - my question was about the build quality and design being appropriate to the cost and representation of the instrument to the user.</p>
<p>I'm also not an advocate for expanding glue in these situations as creep is definitedly an issue with large bridging of gaps. </p>
<p>Rusty.</p> Well that's only $2290 and so…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-12:2177249:Comment:1614652016-07-12T17:26:44.757ZNed Knepphttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>Well that's only $2290 and some change in U.S Dollars so, of course, I'd be welling to pay that for a fancy guitar with a hole in the top full of glue. It's a fine example of the surprising quality found in so many mass produced guitars today. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So, is this an example of production quality vs. build quality? </p>
<p>Actually, I can see where this would seem like a good idea from a production point of view and it really seems to me that the biggest problem is that the bridge…</p>
<p>Well that's only $2290 and some change in U.S Dollars so, of course, I'd be welling to pay that for a fancy guitar with a hole in the top full of glue. It's a fine example of the surprising quality found in so many mass produced guitars today. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So, is this an example of production quality vs. build quality? </p>
<p>Actually, I can see where this would seem like a good idea from a production point of view and it really seems to me that the biggest problem is that the bridge didn't fit properly and the glue wasn't up to the task. It makes me wonder what percentage of their production will end up needing to be fixed like this one.</p>
<p>Honestly, would locating the bridge like this really be a bad idea if it was done like Rusty did it, with a better fit on the bridge and different glue?</p>
<p>My knee jerk reaction was that it's wrong to see a new top with a trench cut across the grain like this but I realize that even I've seen many repaired guitars with cross grain damage that are fine afterward. IF that's not really as big and issue as my knee jerk reaction might indicate, wouldn't this actually represent a pretty handy way to locate and "lock" a bridge in place for the glue up as long as the bridge was fitted properly and a good glue was used? </p> Hi Dave,
Ah, no, the bridge "…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-11:2177249:Comment:1614552016-07-11T14:10:19.436ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Dave,</p>
<p>Ah, no, the bridge "self removed" most of the way and a skinny palate knife completed the lift without any heat being needed. </p>
<p>But, I understand the problems being experienced with "Mystery Glue". Anything out of Indonesia in particular is terrifying - I had a bad day with an "F" Infinity Bass which needed the fingerboard removed to fix the truss rod and stiffen the whole thing: end game on that one was the fingerboard may as well have been welded to the neck. …</p>
<p>Hi Dave,</p>
<p>Ah, no, the bridge "self removed" most of the way and a skinny palate knife completed the lift without any heat being needed. </p>
<p>But, I understand the problems being experienced with "Mystery Glue". Anything out of Indonesia in particular is terrifying - I had a bad day with an "F" Infinity Bass which needed the fingerboard removed to fix the truss rod and stiffen the whole thing: end game on that one was the fingerboard may as well have been welded to the neck. New neck was easier and cheaper than machining of the original board etc.</p>
<p>We are going to see a lot more of these problems out of Asia in particular.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Rusty.</p> Russell, did that bridge rele…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-11:2177249:Comment:1614512016-07-11T12:51:00.545ZDave Richardhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/DaveRichard
Russell, did that bridge release with heat( was it easy to remove)? I recently dealt with a similar situation, but it was an inexpensive Recording King, and the adhesive was some kind of epoxy, or superglue, that would not soften with heat.
Russell, did that bridge release with heat( was it easy to remove)? I recently dealt with a similar situation, but it was an inexpensive Recording King, and the adhesive was some kind of epoxy, or superglue, that would not soften with heat. Hi Len,
Yep, skimmed the bott…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-11:2177249:Comment:1614482016-07-11T11:54:02.787ZRussell Vancehttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Len,</p>
<p>Yep, skimmed the bottom of the trench with a saddle slot jig and endmill, rebated the existing bridge which had a bit of depth in it and stuck it back together with Titebond Original. The fix is easy enough but it takes a bit of time and cost double what a "clean and reglue" would be. It's sub-zero down here mate, I trust the deep north is treating you better.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Rusty.</p>
<p>Hi Len,</p>
<p>Yep, skimmed the bottom of the trench with a saddle slot jig and endmill, rebated the existing bridge which had a bit of depth in it and stuck it back together with Titebond Original. The fix is easy enough but it takes a bit of time and cost double what a "clean and reglue" would be. It's sub-zero down here mate, I trust the deep north is treating you better.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Rusty.</p> Thats terrible , did you repa…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-07-10:2177249:Comment:1615852016-07-10T21:48:21.052ZLen Biglinhttp://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/LenBiglin
<p>Thats terrible , did you repair it Rusty ?</p>
<p>Thats terrible , did you repair it Rusty ?</p>