A 25.4 inch Exact nut to saddle length? - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T19:54:34Zhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/a-25-4-inch-exact-nut-to-saddle-length?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A162499&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI took this mock 69N-20 to ou…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-09-01:2177249:Comment:1624992016-09-01T11:29:09.381ZRobhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobBoucher
<p>I took this mock 69N-20 to our cities biggest luthier as i had an issue with some flatted frets around the 10th to 14th area. I had filed down these frets due to some buzzing. This neck was actually triple doweled due to no trust rod. It was a one time shot to get that angle correct.I used that Stew Mac numbers to try and get that final nut to center saddle correct.</p>
<p>Anyway he checked different notes around the board and showed me some notes were dead on with his expensive Peterson…</p>
<p>I took this mock 69N-20 to our cities biggest luthier as i had an issue with some flatted frets around the 10th to 14th area. I had filed down these frets due to some buzzing. This neck was actually triple doweled due to no trust rod. It was a one time shot to get that angle correct.I used that Stew Mac numbers to try and get that final nut to center saddle correct.</p>
<p>Anyway he checked different notes around the board and showed me some notes were dead on with his expensive Peterson strobe tuner. There were a few notes that were about 2% out. Basically he said no fret positions should be changed as its that close. ....yaaaaa.</p>
<p>He did point out a high spot on the board around the 14th fret only on the low -E side of the board. Also there is a little low area on that same side around the 12th.He said only thing I should do is pull the frets from 12 to 19 and sand that high area down ,fill in that low area,re-stain/clearcoat this distressed look area of the board,re-slot and install the marked frets in the exact direction they were before removal. Then he said give them a little re-crown and the throw the new set of La Bellas onto Trigger-2. I hate going through the stretch process but we will get there.and soon be playing it again.-Rob</p> Hi Ron- From what I have rea…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-27:2177249:Comment:1622672016-08-27T16:04:03.541ZRobhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobBoucher
<p>Hi Ron- From what I have read he often uses LaBella black nylon on the G-B- high E and bronze nylon on the </p>
<p>low-E -A and D strings. Tha'ts what I have on my mock 69 N-20 right now!</p>
<p>Had real hard time up here in Ontario getting these strings. My first set I bought from states . Then I found a outlet buy it now in Montreal where i got two sets for that same price and free shipping to the door in three days which shocked me.It does take quite a while to get them stretched so…</p>
<p>Hi Ron- From what I have read he often uses LaBella black nylon on the G-B- high E and bronze nylon on the </p>
<p>low-E -A and D strings. Tha'ts what I have on my mock 69 N-20 right now!</p>
<p>Had real hard time up here in Ontario getting these strings. My first set I bought from states . Then I found a outlet buy it now in Montreal where i got two sets for that same price and free shipping to the door in three days which shocked me.It does take quite a while to get them stretched so they hold tune but once your there they stay very well even with Willies hard style of plucking strings.-Rob</p> Rob
I have read that Willy u…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-27:2177249:Comment:1624212016-08-27T05:00:40.343ZRon Frazierhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RonFrazier
<p>Rob</p>
<p></p>
<p>I have read that Willy uses classic strings and some times he has to use strings from several sets to get ones that play like he likes them!</p>
<p>I HAVE HEARD THAT SOME PROFESINAL PLAYERS don't like his playing but I like it> Go figger</p>
<p>No guitar will be in tune at all places on the neck.</p>
<p>I am guessing that that is why violins do not have frets is that over time you can fret it sharp or flat a small amout to color the sound.</p>
<p>Keep building and have…</p>
<p>Rob</p>
<p></p>
<p>I have read that Willy uses classic strings and some times he has to use strings from several sets to get ones that play like he likes them!</p>
<p>I HAVE HEARD THAT SOME PROFESINAL PLAYERS don't like his playing but I like it> Go figger</p>
<p>No guitar will be in tune at all places on the neck.</p>
<p>I am guessing that that is why violins do not have frets is that over time you can fret it sharp or flat a small amout to color the sound.</p>
<p>Keep building and have fun!</p>
<p></p>
<p>Ron</p> Thanks Mark for that info …tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-26:2177249:Comment:1623092016-08-26T11:58:15.943ZRobhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobBoucher
<p>Thanks Mark for that info on Willies bridge and saddle .Trigger is one of a kind for sure and even though with limited skills I know I will never copy it.I installed a K&K under the saddle pick-up which works very well. To make sure I had the four sensor system centered I drilled a tiny hole right on the lamination joint of the two sitka spruce top.As instructed by installation instructions the two outside sensors were glued exactly over the two E strings and he other two were…</p>
<p>Thanks Mark for that info on Willies bridge and saddle .Trigger is one of a kind for sure and even though with limited skills I know I will never copy it.I installed a K&K under the saddle pick-up which works very well. To make sure I had the four sensor system centered I drilled a tiny hole right on the lamination joint of the two sitka spruce top.As instructed by installation instructions the two outside sensors were glued exactly over the two E strings and he other two were placed between the other strings giving an even sound accross the saddle in both tone and volume.I did have to make a tiny noch on the edge of two of the fan braces to achieve this feet. My glue job inside was perfect as there is not one buzz or rattle from within nor any wierd sounds coming from the jack out the back end strap. </p> I've never seen or touched on…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-25:2177249:Comment:1621682016-08-25T23:38:54.428ZMark Foglemanhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MarkFogleman
<p>I've never seen or touched one of these bridges so this may be coming from the lower end of my digestive tract, but if you look at the patent documentation for the bridge and pickup used by Baldwin and others around the late 60s: <a href="https://www.google.com/patents/US3530228" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/patents/US3530228</a> it seems to me that the intention for parts 41 (Eye Bolts), 41a (Eye Bolt Nuts) and 52 (Eye Bolt Pins) is to be able to adjust the saddle position…</p>
<p>I've never seen or touched one of these bridges so this may be coming from the lower end of my digestive tract, but if you look at the patent documentation for the bridge and pickup used by Baldwin and others around the late 60s: <a href="https://www.google.com/patents/US3530228" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/patents/US3530228</a> it seems to me that the intention for parts 41 (Eye Bolts), 41a (Eye Bolt Nuts) and 52 (Eye Bolt Pins) is to be able to adjust the saddle position forwards and backwards along the strings. This means the intonation is adjustable as it will definitely be changed with any adjustment of saddle position A small amount of slop in the left to right fit of sliding part of the bridge in its opening would be all you need to offset the angle of the saddle. This sliding base for the saddle would not do a whole lot for the transmission of vibration to the soundboard when unplugged but these guitars were being used connected to amps and needed to be loud w/o feedback so didn't really need to be the ultimate in quality of sound It just needed to sound like an acoustic guitar mixed in with other electric instruments in concerts and bars...some that Willie and Jerry Reed played in had chicken wire around the stage. </p>
<p>As far as the original N-20 bridge...Trigger lore and the internet say (so it has to be true ;') ) it was removed at the music store before Willie even played it and replaced with the bridge and pickup from his wrecked Baldwin because he wanted to keep using the pickup. No telling what happened to the original N-20 bridge.</p>
<p>Fascinating stuff!</p>
<p></p> HI Josh- Thanks for chiming i…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-23:2177249:Comment:1621572016-08-23T18:12:09.424ZRobhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobBoucher
<p>HI Josh- Thanks for chiming in! Pretty sure I watched that u-tube vid on the history of Trigger where they talk about the one hundred remakes to factory specs of the original N-20s. Notice the end of the bridges . They were rounded I talked to a few owners who told me their factory N-20 bridges had rounded bridges and their saddle slots were non compensated. From that close up of Triggers bridge I would figure those tiny adjustments can be made to keep Trigger in perfect intonation if…</p>
<p>HI Josh- Thanks for chiming in! Pretty sure I watched that u-tube vid on the history of Trigger where they talk about the one hundred remakes to factory specs of the original N-20s. Notice the end of the bridges . They were rounded I talked to a few owners who told me their factory N-20 bridges had rounded bridges and their saddle slots were non compensated. From that close up of Triggers bridge I would figure those tiny adjustments can be made to keep Trigger in perfect intonation if there is such a things. My guess is most guitars are a touch sharp or flat on at least some strings. My guess most people would not want to admit to that.-Rob</p> That movable saddle is the Ba…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-23:2177249:Comment:1623002016-08-23T17:28:12.564ZJoshua Levin-Epsteinhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JoshuaLevinEpstein
<p>That movable saddle is the Baldwin pick-up that is such a part of Trigger's sound. I'm pretty certain that is the original bridge with the front "relieved/removed" to accommodate the pick-up.</p>
<p>That movable saddle is the Baldwin pick-up that is such a part of Trigger's sound. I'm pretty certain that is the original bridge with the front "relieved/removed" to accommodate the pick-up.</p> Thanks Howard for all your h…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-23:2177249:Comment:1621562016-08-23T12:32:21.198ZRobhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobBoucher
<p>Thanks Howard for all your help with those specs.I see Willie Nelson has his own luther that keeps his 69N-20 intonated perfect or close it.If you see a close up of Triggers bridge, he has a (not original) bridge that actually has two fine brass screws which allows the saddle to be moved from time to time. Guess with board shrinkage it would be moved back or it would start playing sharp. You would think more vintage guitars play sharp than flat Howard.</p>
<p>Thanks Howard for all your help with those specs.I see Willie Nelson has his own luther that keeps his 69N-20 intonated perfect or close it.If you see a close up of Triggers bridge, he has a (not original) bridge that actually has two fine brass screws which allows the saddle to be moved from time to time. Guess with board shrinkage it would be moved back or it would start playing sharp. You would think more vintage guitars play sharp than flat Howard.</p> 25.34 is just under 25-11/32"…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-23:2177249:Comment:1622582016-08-23T04:39:20.446ZHoward Klepperhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HowardKlepper
<p>25.34 is just under 25-11/32". You don't really need that number if you have a fretboard that is already slotted or fretted--you can double the nut to 12th fret distance to get the scale. The amount you should add for compensation varies with the kind of strings you are using and the action height. Nylon strings will usually need a little less compensation than steel. And the saddle is usually not angled on the bridge of a nylon string guitar. Doubling the nut to 12th fret distance and…</p>
<p>25.34 is just under 25-11/32". You don't really need that number if you have a fretboard that is already slotted or fretted--you can double the nut to 12th fret distance to get the scale. The amount you should add for compensation varies with the kind of strings you are using and the action height. Nylon strings will usually need a little less compensation than steel. And the saddle is usually not angled on the bridge of a nylon string guitar. Doubling the nut to 12th fret distance and adding 1/8" to the center of the saddle should put you pretty close.</p> Right now as I measure it app…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2016-08-22:2177249:Comment:1623972016-08-22T23:27:41.904ZRobhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobBoucher
<p>Right now as I measure it appears in total length the strings touch point is at 647mm so looks like all my calculations are very close would you agree Mark. From nut to center 12th appears to be 322mm.</p>
<p>How does that sound for a 25.4 inch scale? Is it in the ballpark? I now the notes of the fretboard are right with a so-so Snark meter which is all I have sadly. </p>
<p>Right now as I measure it appears in total length the strings touch point is at 647mm so looks like all my calculations are very close would you agree Mark. From nut to center 12th appears to be 322mm.</p>
<p>How does that sound for a 25.4 inch scale? Is it in the ballpark? I now the notes of the fretboard are right with a so-so Snark meter which is all I have sadly. </p>