buzz from a resonator cone... what to do? - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T05:28:01Zhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/buzz-from-a-resonator-cone-what-to-do?feed=yes&xn_auth=noGreg, thanks for the reply. …tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-06-21:2177249:Comment:1918002020-06-21T20:00:15.919ZGreg Millerhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/GregMiller
<p>Greg, thanks for the reply. IRT the biscuit gluing to the cone, I agree with you which is also what Stewmac techs as well as Dan E. says. Although they do say if gluing is a preference use wood glue. I'll doubly agree with you especially for an aluminum biscuit to an aluminum cone which is how the the National Revolution is tha wood glue makes absolutely no sense.</p>
<p></p>
<p>However, with the aluminum biscuit machine screw and washer I still think that threadlock (the low torque…</p>
<p>Greg, thanks for the reply. IRT the biscuit gluing to the cone, I agree with you which is also what Stewmac techs as well as Dan E. says. Although they do say if gluing is a preference use wood glue. I'll doubly agree with you especially for an aluminum biscuit to an aluminum cone which is how the the National Revolution is tha wood glue makes absolutely no sense.</p>
<p></p>
<p>However, with the aluminum biscuit machine screw and washer I still think that threadlock (the low torque breakaway grade would be called for). An even better approach would be a different screw (pan/flange head eliminating the washer with a nylon key eliminating the need for threadlock). </p>
<p></p>
<p>IRT the break angle between the saddle and tailpiece I'll with the 5 to 7 degrees which is about where it is now before setup. The action at 12th fret is 1/16 on both the bass and treble so it isn't much off where I want it.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The guitar is marketed through Dean made in Korea and I believe made in the Samick factory. Although Dean says the serial number is on the headstock it isn't so I'll go hunting for it elsewhere when I have the guitar apart. Being my first resonator, I wanted to start with a low/mid range one in good shape.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I'll try getting some pictures during the week and send them. Greg Miller </p> 1. No glue; no threadlock. Wh…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-06-19:2177249:Comment:1917972020-06-19T00:06:27.476ZGreg Mirkenhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/GregMirken
<p>1. No glue; no threadlock. When I was at Dobro we used AR glue between the biscuit and cone,which always seemed stupid to me because it invariably lets go of the aluminum and can start a rattle. Anything squishy in there seems like a bad idea.</p>
<p>2. The angle across the saddle is trivial. It's not the downward force that drives the cone. 5 to 7 degrees is fine.</p>
<p>Photos would be good. What make is the guitar?</p>
<p></p>
<p>1. No glue; no threadlock. When I was at Dobro we used AR glue between the biscuit and cone,which always seemed stupid to me because it invariably lets go of the aluminum and can start a rattle. Anything squishy in there seems like a bad idea.</p>
<p>2. The angle across the saddle is trivial. It's not the downward force that drives the cone. 5 to 7 degrees is fine.</p>
<p>Photos would be good. What make is the guitar?</p>
<p></p> I acquired a steel single con…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-06-18:2177249:Comment:1917922020-06-18T21:19:40.706ZGreg Millerhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/GregMiller
<p>I acquired a steel single cone biscuit bridge resonator awhile back that is in need of some restoration. </p>
<p>What I'd really like to find is a good book on resonator guitar maintenance and setup. Suggestions welcome.</p>
<p>I have snippets of info from Stewmac, National, and Beard guitars. Besides a thorough cleaning this project will be replacing the nut, cone, and biscuit/saddle. I intend to set it up for fretted play versus slide with an action at about 4/64 low and 3/64 high at…</p>
<p>I acquired a steel single cone biscuit bridge resonator awhile back that is in need of some restoration. </p>
<p>What I'd really like to find is a good book on resonator guitar maintenance and setup. Suggestions welcome.</p>
<p>I have snippets of info from Stewmac, National, and Beard guitars. Besides a thorough cleaning this project will be replacing the nut, cone, and biscuit/saddle. I intend to set it up for fretted play versus slide with an action at about 4/64 low and 3/64 high at 12th fret depending how the guitar responds. I've opted to try Nationals new Revolution biscuit/saddle (aluminum biscuit with wood compensated saddle (varying species)) with their Hot Rod cone. Besides the procedures common to an acoustic, I have some questions regarding the resonator end of the business:</p>
<p>1. Gluing the biscuit to the cone. I get the impression that the purpose is really as an anti-rattle preventative since there is a screw mechanically fitting the parts. Some folks are in the no glue camp. Many use wood glue which doesn't make sense to me. If it is necessary, then I think more down the lines of a thin bead of rubber cement or a three to four pin head drops of gel superglue like one would use installing a nut. Also being the Revolution biscuit uses a machine screw versus wood screw a dab of thread lock could be prudent. In any case, since the cone sweet spot has to be found/maintained, and the biscuit/saddle orientation for intonation purposes has to be performed, if glue is needed I really lean more to an adhesive that allows non-destructible parts separation and adjustment. Thoughts?</p>
<p>2. Method of determining proper break angle between saddle and tail piece. National has told me that it was a secret. Beard says about 5 to 7 degrees. However there must be a method behind it. Inputs? </p> I build dobro type guitars …tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2014-05-04:2177249:Comment:1318502014-05-04T22:07:46.500ZRon frazierhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Ronfrazier403
<p>I build dobro type guitars Robro Guitars. is my name. I would have to guess at what is wrong with your insterment. My first check is like Greg says is play it when it is tuned to pitch then fret it at the first fret and if it leaves it is in the nut and correct it like Greg says if it is still there it is at the cone. Tap around the cone and see if you can get a rattle. If not try pushing down on the bridge and see if it leaves , The ledge could be loose from the cone or the cone is not…</p>
<p>I build dobro type guitars Robro Guitars. is my name. I would have to guess at what is wrong with your insterment. My first check is like Greg says is play it when it is tuned to pitch then fret it at the first fret and if it leaves it is in the nut and correct it like Greg says if it is still there it is at the cone. Tap around the cone and see if you can get a rattle. If not try pushing down on the bridge and see if it leaves , The ledge could be loose from the cone or the cone is not seated to the guitar top. If that is the case I would cut a circle the size of the cone and glue sandpaper to one side then with a pencel mark the ledge and spin the sandpaper around until you remove the marks.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Have fun</p>
<p></p>
<p>Robroron PS Greg Do you remember a Jim Bradly that visited with you guys back then. He is a friend of mine.</p> Thanks Greg, great points! I…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2013-08-30:2177249:Comment:1170172013-08-30T17:56:15.933ZChristina Perryhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChristinaPerry
<p>Thanks Greg, great points! I will be looking into this much deeper this weekend, and I will start by looking at what you suggest. Definitely don't want to take this thing apart if I don't have to. I'll confirm that it's only open C (I think it is, but I'll make a more focused study), and proceed from there...</p>
<p></p>
<p>thanks again to all!</p>
<p></p>
<p>c</p>
<p>Thanks Greg, great points! I will be looking into this much deeper this weekend, and I will start by looking at what you suggest. Definitely don't want to take this thing apart if I don't have to. I'll confirm that it's only open C (I think it is, but I'll make a more focused study), and proceed from there...</p>
<p></p>
<p>thanks again to all!</p>
<p></p>
<p>c</p> Stop; before you start taking…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2013-08-29:2177249:Comment:1169982013-08-29T19:38:14.248ZGreg Mirkenhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/GregMirken
<p>Stop; before you start taking it apart, you say that the only note that buzzes is the open C string. No harm in checking the coverplate screws, but if the 1st fret C# doesn't buzz, and a fretted C note elsewhere on the fretboard doesn't buzz, the <em>only possible</em> cause of that buzz is at the nut. Either the slot is too low, allowing the string to zing against the 1st fret, or the slot is angled poorly causing the string to zing within the slot itself.</p>
<p>I know it sounds like the…</p>
<p>Stop; before you start taking it apart, you say that the only note that buzzes is the open C string. No harm in checking the coverplate screws, but if the 1st fret C# doesn't buzz, and a fretted C note elsewhere on the fretboard doesn't buzz, the <em>only possible</em> cause of that buzz is at the nut. Either the slot is too low, allowing the string to zing against the 1st fret, or the slot is angled poorly causing the string to zing within the slot itself.</p>
<p>I know it sounds like the buzz is somewhere in the cone, but that's just because it's the cone's job to amplify sounds.</p>
<p>I worked for Dobro doing assembly, setups and repairs in the 70s and I have done work for National Resophonic for many years too. Opening it up is likely to cause more buzzes than you started with if you're not used to working on these beasts.</p> The first place I would check…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2013-08-29:2177249:Comment:1168132013-08-29T02:17:23.747ZJon Hiltbrandhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/JonHiltbrand
<p>The first place I would check for buzzing on any resonator guitar is the coverplate. If the coverplate is not firmly seated on the top it will buzz like crazy. Some coverplates are held on with machine screws but most are just small wood screws. Many times these holes will need to be filled and re-drilled in order to get enough bite to pull the cover down securely. If putting a bit of pressure on the coverplate in different spots stops the buzz then you have your answer.</p>
<p>Next best…</p>
<p>The first place I would check for buzzing on any resonator guitar is the coverplate. If the coverplate is not firmly seated on the top it will buzz like crazy. Some coverplates are held on with machine screws but most are just small wood screws. Many times these holes will need to be filled and re-drilled in order to get enough bite to pull the cover down securely. If putting a bit of pressure on the coverplate in different spots stops the buzz then you have your answer.</p>
<p>Next best thing is to take it apart and inspect the conewell surface as suggested above.</p>
<p>Did the buzz just start or has it always been this way?</p> All excellent suggestions, th…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2013-08-28:2177249:Comment:1167672013-08-28T20:49:30.895ZChristina Perryhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/ChristinaPerry
<p>All excellent suggestions, thank you so much!</p>
<p>I will take it apart this weekend and follow all of the above steps, including photos (I do that a lot when I take appliances apart to fix them). I'll report back on how it goes and the results...</p>
<p>thanks again, I truly appreciate the help!</p>
<p>Christina</p>
<p>All excellent suggestions, thank you so much!</p>
<p>I will take it apart this weekend and follow all of the above steps, including photos (I do that a lot when I take appliances apart to fix them). I'll report back on how it goes and the results...</p>
<p>thanks again, I truly appreciate the help!</p>
<p>Christina</p> Word.tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2013-08-28:2177249:Comment:1168002013-08-28T18:51:15.250ZRobbie Collinshttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobbieCollins
<p>Word.</p>
<p>Word.</p> Ever hear the tune "One Toke…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2013-08-28:2177249:Comment:1165592013-08-28T18:01:30.015ZHesh Breakstonehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/HeshBreakstone
<p>Ever hear the tune "One Toke Over The Line?" Resonators are often very close to one buzz/rattle/extranious, unwanted noise over the line. By their nature and how they are susposed to work there is a lot of room for things to rattle and buzz.</p>
<p></p>
<p>What Robbie said is most of what you want to do and that is take it apart, perhaps photograph the various stages of disassembly with your phone to help you sort it out later when you reassemble it. What you are looking for is decent…</p>
<p>Ever hear the tune "One Toke Over The Line?" Resonators are often very close to one buzz/rattle/extranious, unwanted noise over the line. By their nature and how they are susposed to work there is a lot of room for things to rattle and buzz.</p>
<p></p>
<p>What Robbie said is most of what you want to do and that is take it apart, perhaps photograph the various stages of disassembly with your phone to help you sort it out later when you reassemble it. What you are looking for is decent contact on the mating parts. Sometimes we can help the fit with a little encouragement and other times simply rotating things from the status quo can provide better fitting parts. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I've not had the pleasure of taking one of these ukes apart yet but likely will since ukes are so very popular these days. But regardless of if it's a uke or guitar styled resonator the principals are the same, endeavor to have uniform fit and contact all aroound the cone and other parts and upon restring the buzz may be gone. Mind you you may have introduced a new and different buzz or rattle but sometimes we do the best we can and then resort to trial and error.</p>