fret dot at the 9th for guitar, 10th for mandos etc - why? - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T12:11:51Zhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/fret-dot-at-the-9th-for-guitar-10th-for-mandos-etc-why?feed=yes&xn_auth=noQuote: "Ukes"
Good Mornin…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-04-04:2177249:Comment:1455822015-04-04T07:55:06.000ZPeter Poyserhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PeterPoyser
<p>Quote: "Ukes"</p>
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<p>Good Morning!</p>
<p>Ukuleles are discussed in the Link above.</p>
<p>My Son, his wife and two friends, have recently returned from Madeira.</p>
<p>The Family of one of their friends has always lived there, and so its where his friend originated from.</p>
<p>The Island is a Portuguese Archipelago, and a Group of Cabinetmakers from Madeira and Cape Verde left there to Travel the World about 125 Years ago.</p>
<p>Augusto Dias, Manuel Nunes, and Jose do…</p>
<p>Quote: "Ukes"</p>
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<p>Good Morning!</p>
<p>Ukuleles are discussed in the Link above.</p>
<p>My Son, his wife and two friends, have recently returned from Madeira.</p>
<p>The Family of one of their friends has always lived there, and so its where his friend originated from.</p>
<p>The Island is a Portuguese Archipelago, and a Group of Cabinetmakers from Madeira and Cape Verde left there to Travel the World about 125 Years ago.</p>
<p>Augusto Dias, Manuel Nunes, and Jose do Espirito Santo eventually settled on the Hawaiian Islands and started a Workshop in Honolulu making and selling the “Machete de braga”.</p>
<p>The “Machete" used Metal Strings and was an Instrument that had been brought to the Islands by Portuguese Immigrants. The Hawaiian People loved the Instrument, took to it straight away, and it quickly evolved into what we know today as "The Ukulele".</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJ5Cj4-KVI" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJ5Cj4-KVI</a></p>
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<p>"The Ukulele" is a member of the "Lute Family of Instruments".</p>
<p>It's an Instrument that Originated in one part of the world, and became adopted by and further developed in another.</p>
<p>In much the same manner as which the Guitar Originated in one Continent of the world, and became adopted by and further developed on another Continent.</p>
<p>Apart from the Three Noted Nose Flute, (The Four Noted Nose Flute is the Most Ancient Instrument Known to Humankind, so an even more basic Form), Native Hawaiian Music featured Simple Percussion Instruments Alone.</p>
<p>As far as we know, the “Machete de braga” was the First Melodic Instrument the Hawaiian's had ever encountered. It's Sound totally fascinated them, and thus with the help of the Madeira Cabinet Makers, the people Bought and Played it and the Instrument Developed into the "Ukulele". A name one theory purports it got as the Players Hands on the Fingerboard, reminded them of "Jumping Fleas" a literal translation. </p>
<p>However, Queen Lili'uokalani, the last Hawaiian Monarch, stated that the name "Ukulele" means “the gift that came here” from the Hawaiian words uku (gift or reward) and lele (to come), an idea not sustained by Authoritative Dictionary Explanations of the History of the Word. The King of the Island, David Kalakaua was very Musical, he was a friend of Augusto Dias and so quickly became an Avid Enthusiast of the Instrument. Endorsements don't come any better than That! But Kalakaua encouraged it's use to promote a Counter Culture to help resist incoming Zealous Missionary Endeavours upon the Island, he felt were a Threat.</p>
<p>"The Machete" was slightly Re-Designed made now with local Koa Wood, with a Change to its Tuning which made it Easier to Learn to Play. These are the Essential Differences that Differentiate the Instruments along today with its Softer Strings. "The Cavaquinho" is another European Instrument, thought of as the Portuguese Mainland name for "The Machete", whose Ancient Origins seem to have come from Biscay in Spain, and Earlier still, from the Celts in Gallaeci. The <i><em>Guitarro, Timple and Tiple (Spanish for Treble) are other Similar Instruments.</em></i> The Tuning of the "The Cavaquinho" was D-A-B-E, and typical of Spain, from the Guitar Family of Instruments, and it's easy to see how that D-A-B-E could become D-G-B-E, but "The Cavaquinho" enjoys amazing similarities to the “Machete de braga”.</p>
<p>According to Published Authorities in Honolulu memorialised in 1915. Angeline Nunes and A.A. Santos maintain that Tuning as was Tradition for the 19th century "Machete" D-G-B-D. Furthermore they described the Madeiran Tuning as being the "Correct Tuning" for The Ukelele. C6 or D6 Tuning eventually became a Hot Controversy as the Ukulele later became a Popular Instrument in Pacific Western America and Atlantic America, Canada and Europe. Both sides that argue about this should be happy to see the other side be proven entirely wrong. Even though both C and D Tuning are known to Slightly Predate the Publication. That they too are also proven wrong according to the 1915 Tutor is perhaps the Balancing of the Scales of Justice or just an Inconvenient Truth. To my mind the truth is these Popular Tunings Prompted what was seen at the time as the "Necessity of the Assertion of Tradition" as it was worryingly being Superseded. But Unless Die Hard Advocates are in Possession of Material Evidence of Documentation that Precedes 1915, they both seem to have a Problem with their Theories, as to Proving Definitively who is Right!</p>
<p>I believe it to be as Described without Documentary Evidence to the Contrary but that leaves far too much that is Failed to be Taken Into Account. One of the Beauties of the Ukulele, is that it easily lends it self to Different Tunings. An advantage this affords is that its Tuning can be quickly Tailored, and Customised to the Demands of any Particular Song. In Point of Fact, this feature of Customising Ukulele Tunings was SO Prevalent, and Widespread, that if you Study Early Song Sheets that feature Ukulele Chords. You will find that All the Chord Tablature of the Time, Often Preceded the Song with Specific Advice on WHICH Tuning to use for that Particular Song. This really gives the Game Away. A Traditional Tuning had been Transcended by the Advantage of Employing Multiple Tunings according to the Music at Hand. The Ukulele had become so ubiquitous that it was used in a Growing Variety of Different Modes. The Other Side of this Coin however, was that it's Cheapness, Ease to Learn and Play, and Popularity meant that it increasing became seen as a Populist Toy. Not a Serious Musical Instrument. Thus, became a Victim of its Own Success. Particularly as Virtuoso Instrumentalists of the Banjo, Tenor Guitar and the Wide Compass Guitar in Particular became Popular, especially as it became Amplified and seen as a Lead Instrument of the Day.</p>
<p>There are many Variants of the Ukulele as discussed in the Link featured in my Original Post. Many Hybrid Musical Instruments such as the Guitalele, (Guitarlele), Banjo Ukulele, (Banjolele, invented in 1917 by Hawaii-born Alvin Keech), Harp Ukulele, Lap Steel Ukulele, Mandolin Banjo's and many types of Small Ukulele Sized Instruments featuring Mandolin Like Eight Strings in Four Courses that hail from various parts of the World, each with their differing Names. The Taropatch is another Eight String Four Course Instrument derived from a Related Earlier Instrument, and there are Others with Five Strings, the list seems endless of the many Variants. But although they appear to come from Various Continents, from the Locations they Appear in, it is clear that Spanish and Portuguese Adventurers brought these Instruments in some Form or Another, and/or the Native Residents Locally Evolved, Further New Instruments in Forms straightforwardly Derived From Them.</p>
<p>Although The Baritone Ukulele is a Mainland American Evolution and does not proceed from the Hawaii Islands. There are none the less, Basically Six Different Types of Ukulele, and their Combined Musical Compass or Range in Pitch, Supersedes that of the Classical Guitar at both ends of the Spectrum.</p>
<p>All things being considered, One Classical Guitar almost Completely Covers the Range of All these Six Instruments taken Together. Is this a little considered Additional Reason for the Universal Supremacy of the Guitar as a Popular Instrument? I believe it is so.</p>
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<p>None the less the Easy to Learn and play Ukulele was in Hot Demand from People attending the Long Panama Pacific International Exhibition in San Francisco in 1915, from American Servicemen returning from Hawaii, and at Various Points from the Early Part of the Last Century right to the Middle of it and Once Again even Today.</p>
<p>Its Popularity Soared like a Bird and Sank like a Stone, through the last Century as Musical Fashions Chopped and Changed and Came and Went like the Massive Upheavals in the World Around, and the Massed Migrations of Peoples in a World that had become Increasingly Difficult to Live In and Folk were Laying their Lives on the Line to do Something about that Problem of Global Conflict.</p>
<p>Economically, the same can be said of Challenging Recent Years and Once Again we Note the Insatiable Rise in Popularity of this Cheap, Simple Instrument, in Locations All Around the World. Just Last Night I read in my Local Paper and Saw a Picture of Folks of All Ages Learning the Ukulele in Groups for £5 a Lesson.</p>
<p>Learning and Playing Together is a rediscovery of the Spirit of Community of Many, Many Decades Ago. Today, so often we have a Fragmented Society, where people Live Together in Close Proximity, without ever Knowing Each Other or Being Involved Together in any Community Activity.</p>
<p>We have Proximity Without Community. Years Ago Community Orchestras featuring many Instruments of the Same Type (and many of the Instruments previously mentioned were involved) brought People Together, Enriched Their Lives Personally, and Strengthened Communities Throughout the World.</p>
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<p>If you Study The Guitars made by Stradivarius, although they lack Dot Markers, the Wood of the Bodies Top Enjoins Joins the Traditional Darker Wood of the Rest of the Fretboard at the 8th, 9th and 10th Fret, so appears there's No Set Pattern, given that being an Easy Way to Spot which Fret you are at on the Higher Section of the Neck. However, Stradivari was Continually trying to Improve his Instruments, so tended to Make Small Changes in an Evolutionary Manner to Detect Sonic Differences. I would suspect there's no more to it than that. Sound and Stability.</p>
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<p><strong>Many Early Pure Instruments of the Types I discussed above, as well as many of the Hybrid Instruments, feature Dots at the 3rd, 5th, and 7th Fret and many also add the 10th Fret Dot.</strong></p>
<p><strong>These were very often Small, Cheap, Easier to Make, Learn and Play Instruments, that at an Era of Geographical Exploration and Discovery, Transcontinental Travel took these Conventions All Around the then Known World, launching from the Continent of Europe. </strong></p>
<p><strong>So if you can see where I'm going with this. Their Transference onto Newly Developed Instruments, like the Banjo and its Variants including some New Guitar Builds should not be at all Surprising.</strong> <strong>My Personal Belief, (and I don't believe anyone's Complex Theories can provide Proof to the Contrary), would be that this is the Authentic Reason for the 10th Fret Tradition with these Particular Instruments. Including many Early Guitars Produced in Factories that also made large numbers of these Many Other Smaller Instruments with similar Cosmetic Aesthetics, during the same Eras as their Particular Heydays in Fashion.</strong></p>
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<p>The Note C would be seen by Banjo Players in Particular as a Pivotal Point on their Fretboard, and many Players of other Instruments too. It's a perfectly logical Key Point of the Banjo Natural Scale that also locates Common Relative Chords Easily.</p>
<p>The Tenor Banjo, first fabricated by Chicago's J.B. Schall very early in the Last Century was based upon Designs by Professor Louis Stepner, a Virtuoso Mandolin Player. And was Originally Marketed as a Cross Over Instrument to Mandolin Players.</p>
<p>As Musical Fashions came and went, Travelling Musicians adapted to New Crazes to Stay in Work and Meet Popular Demand for New Music. The Tango being just One Example that Encouraged Further Hybrid Crossovers by Such Makers as Schall. One Anomaly of the Tenor Banjo was that it featured a Higher Pitch instead of Routinely Conforming to the Standard Line in Classical Voices and Musical Instruments of Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass. So its "Title" doesn't really make Traditional Musical Sense in the Classic Mode of Thinking as you would expect it to be Lower in Pitch and Tonality. However, it was a New Lead Instrument. Its advantage was it could be Easily Adapted to by Viola Players and those Used to Symmetrically Tuned Instruments i.e. with Fifths between the Consecutive Strings.</p>
<p>With such Banjo's, when they Include Double Dots at the 17th, 12th and 7th Frets as well, it even looks good to Guitar Players, so some Guitars feature Banjo influenced Multiple Double Dots plus Single Dots at Multiple Positions, but most often at the Regular Guitar Positions that have Emerged and are Established Today as Standards. From the Designers of the Popular Traditional Guitars we Know and Love Today, Aesthetic Point of View, there is Another Issue Entirely. In The World at That Time, Accurate Symmetric Shapes are Broadly Considered to be "Correct". Lack of Symmetry would be Considered "Wrong" or Poor Design.</p>
<p>So having a Clearly Marked 12th fret at the Octave and Double Blank Frets Either Side would be Symmetric, and Well Balanced from an Aesthetic Point of View. This Aesthetic, at the 12 the Fret and Beyond is of course in Most Designs, (but not all, especially where Gibson Block Markers are concerned), Directly Echoed by the Lack of Dot Placements at the same point from the Nut of the Guitar to the 3rd Fret.</p>
<p>It Balances the Overall Design Out Perfectly, and the Player enjoins the Second Octave in Entirely the Same Manner, in which he Played the First. What could be More Sensible than that?</p>
<p>It Smooth's Out the Overall Layout of a Guitar to make it More Readily Comprehendible through an Era when the Virtuoso Guitar Soloist was an Iconic, Heroic Figure.</p>
<p>With Lead Guitars Approaching and Reaching the Two Octave Neck and the Instrument Compass increasing to a Full Total of Four Octaves in Cases.</p>
<p>The History of Most Musical Instruments involves Developing Projection, Improving Tone and Increasing the Range of Compass.</p>
<p>The Positions of Dots, Directly Reflect this Axiomatic Truth.</p>
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<p>When Modern Guitar Players have No Dots to Follow on their Fingerboard but get a Solo, they Inevitably and by Default Become Influenced by the Mediterranean Roots of their Instrument.</p>
<p>Totally Confused by this State of Affairs, they Play like a Cross Between a Guitarist, Bouzouki, Banjo and Mandolin Player.</p>
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<p>Frank Vignola with the Incredible Organist Joey DeFrancesco (Sicilian by Descent) & Trio :)</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaQYqlpA2YQ" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaQYqlpA2YQ</a></p>
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<p>Here's What you Get when Blocks Are Present in the Symmetric Position and a Further Wooden Block is added to the Inside of the Instrument. </p>
<p>The Pulling of Faces and Odd Body Positions.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVaYwUAOeTY" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVaYwUAOeTY</a></p>
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<p>Paul McCartney talking about Ukuleles.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2wP6tbVakU" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2wP6tbVakU</a></p>
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<p>And Wonderful Joe Brown.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGivnGv-HXs" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGivnGv-HXs</a></p>
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<p>Have a Happy Easter Everybody :)</p>
<p></p> Many Ukes also follow the man…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-04-03:2177249:Comment:1452812015-04-03T14:42:19.888ZRobbie Collinshttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RobbieCollins
<p>Many Ukes also follow the mando scheme. Being a guitar player, I moved my ukes' dots.</p>
<p>Many Ukes also follow the mando scheme. Being a guitar player, I moved my ukes' dots.</p> Quote: "a throwback to the da…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-04-03:2177249:Comment:1452742015-04-03T13:33:31.827ZPeter Poyserhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PeterPoyser
<p>Quote: "a throwback to the days"</p>
<p>- Snipped for Shortness -</p>
<p>Quote: "orchestras"</p>
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<p>This brings up a thought.</p>
<p>I remember a Recording Engineer worrying about a "Tam Tam", that featured in the Musical Score that he was going to have to Record, and he didn't know how to Mic it.</p>
<p>Now Percussion Instruments are many and varied. It is renowned as the "Kitchen Utensil Section" and there can be different types of Tam Tam, in Music from different…</p>
<p>Quote: "a throwback to the days"</p>
<p>- Snipped for Shortness -</p>
<p>Quote: "orchestras"</p>
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<p>This brings up a thought.</p>
<p>I remember a Recording Engineer worrying about a "Tam Tam", that featured in the Musical Score that he was going to have to Record, and he didn't know how to Mic it.</p>
<p>Now Percussion Instruments are many and varied. It is renowned as the "Kitchen Utensil Section" and there can be different types of Tam Tam, in Music from different Geographical Regions, but I happened to mention to him that it in the Score concerned, it was actually a straight forward type of Gong that would be used, so to Mic it as if it were a Gong.</p>
<p>For some extraordinary reason with this Young Engineer, my comment appeared to provoke a response, where he immediately argued strongly that it wasn't a Gong, but another Instrument Entirely, so treating it as if it were a Gong wasn't ever going to be the Answer. He needed to go into the Recording Session knowing how he was going to Set Up the Mic's, so I understood his concern, although very surprised that he would argue with me about this.</p>
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<p>Fortunately, many years ago I attended Lectures in Oxford University given by the World's Greatest Percussionist, the late James Blades, so I figured I had learnt a little about the Instruments.</p>
<p>For those Luthiers that understandably might not know of him, let me tell you a little about James. His interest in Percussion Instruments was first aroused when as a young boy, he would follow the Salvation Army Band as it marched around his Town on a Sunday Morning, entranced and fascinated by the Big Bass Drum.</p>
<p>At the Advent of the Silent Movies, when Charlie Chaplin wanted to make a Film where he had a "Showdown at High Noon" with a Baddie and the Film repeatedly referenced a Grandfather Clocks Hands gradually moving to Twelve, Heightening Tension, they needed to Record a Clock Like "Tick Tock" but couldn't get a Tellingly Convincing Sound. So James Tuned Two Large Kettle Drums, and Placed Two Large 20" - 22" Cymbals, Flat on their Skins. Then he got Two Heavy Half Crown Coins, one in Each Hand and Clicked them on the Bells of the Two Cymbals, in time with the Clocks Pendulum. This gave a really Deeply Solid "Tick Tock" Sound, Charlie Chaplin was Happy, and the Film was a Major Success!</p>
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<p>In WWll when Sir Winston Churchill wanted a Good Idea as to how his Inspiring Wartime Addresses to Peoples and Troops around the World should be "Introduced", he turned to James for an Answer.</p>
<p>Churchill (who was born and is buried nearby) was deeply concerned at the time, that Nazis Propagandists might be able to Copy Recordings and Plant False Messages. So wanted a Commandingly Unique Sound to Precede, Authenticate and Introduce Him to the Worldwide Audience.</p>
<p>And James (with his incredible collection of extremely rare, unusual and Historically Notable Musical Instruments, some of which he obtained quite cheaply many of which I've seen and experienced) produced a very rare type of African Drum, and on it played the first few notes of a Beethoven Symphony, using a soft yellow cloth as a mute on some of the notes. The "V-for-Victory" theme on BBC Broadcasts during World War II. Blades was proud of his recording of the Morse code for "V," which was played up to 150 times a day at the start of British Broadcasting Corporation Broadcasts to occupied Europe.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.blenheimpalace.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blenheimpalace.com/</a></p>
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<p>You will have seen the Huge Gong played by the Strong 'He Man' at the opening scenes of the J. Arthur Rank Films.</p>
<p>In actual fact that Gong used to Introduced the Films was made out of Cardboard. The Real Gong of course belonged to James Blades, who Actually Played It for me, and it was around 2 1/2 feet in diameter.</p>
<p>James was a wonderful character to be around. He was a long-time associate of Famous British Composer, Benjamin Britten with whom he conceived many of the Composer's Unusual Percussion Effects. In 1954, Blades was appointed Professor of Percussion at the Royal Academy of Music.</p>
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<p>James wrote what is regarded as "The Bible" on Percussion Instruments which covers Several Volumes. Here are some of the Celebrated Books he wrote.</p>
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<p><b><i>Orchestral Percussion Techniques</i></b> <b>(Oxford: University, 1961) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780193188013" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-19-318801-3</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Faber & Faber, 1971) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780571088584" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-571-08858-4</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Orchestral Percussion Techniques</i></b> <b>(Oxford: University, 1973) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780193188037" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-19-318803-7</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Faber & Faber, 1975) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780571103607" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-571-10360-7</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Faber & Faber, 1975) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780571048328" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-571-04832-8</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Early Percussion Instruments from the Middle Ages to the Baroque</i></b> <b>(Oxford: University, 1976) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780193231764" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-19-323176-4</a> (with Jeremy Montagu)</b></p>
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<p><b><i>Drum Roll: A Professional Adventure from the Circus to the Concert Hall</i></b> <b>(London: Faber & Faber, 1977) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780571101078" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-571-10107-8</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Ready to Play</i></b> <b>(London: BBC, 1978) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780563176107" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-563-17610-7</a> (with Carole Ward)</b></p>
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<p><b><i>From Cave to Cavern</i></b> <b>(London: Sussex, 1982) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9781860131387" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-1-86013-138-7</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>A Check-List of the Percussion Instruments in the Edinburgh University Collection of Historic Musical Instruments</i></b> <b>(Edinburgh: Reid School of Music, 1982) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780907635079" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-907635-07-9</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Faber & Faber, 1984) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780571180813" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-571-18081-3</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>How to Play Drums</i></b> <b>(London: Penguin, 1985) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780241116708" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-241-11670-8</a> (with Johnny Dean)</b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Pro Am Music Resources, 1992) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780933224711" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-933224-71-1</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>These I Have Met...</i></b> <b>(London: Music Sales, 1998) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780905210773" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-905210-77-3</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>How to Play Drums</i></b> <b>(London: St Martins, 1992) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780312082123" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-312-08212-3</a> (with Johnny Dean)</b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Kahn & Averill, 1993) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9781871082364" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-1-871082-36-4</a></b></p>
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<p><b><i>Percussion Instruments and their History</i></b> <b>(London: Kahn & Averill, 2006) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/9780933224612" rel="nofollow">ISBN 978-0-933224-61-2</a></b></p>
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<p>So having Studied and Learnt from a man like this, (I collect Percussion Instruments along with Other Types of Instrument) you can understand "Why" having a Recording Engineer question me about them was so surprising.</p>
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<p>The thing is.</p>
<p>They Both Sound Like Gongs!</p>
<p>The Oxford English Dictionary defines a Tam Tam as "A large metal gong, spec. one of a Chinese kind which lacks a definite pitch."</p>
<p>The Domed Gong has a more Fundamental and Distinct Pitch and Shorter Decay, whereas the Tam Tam has no Distinct Pitch, although the Absolute Truth is, Size Does Impose a Form of Pitch.</p>
<p>The Domed Gong "Sounds Majestic and Exotic" whereas the Tam Tam has a Greater Dynamic Range and in Particular can Ring Through in Crash Sound even with a Full Orchestra and can Ring on for Minutes, so more of "An Effect".</p>
<p>The Gong is "Inherently Musical" to the Western Ear, whereas the Tam Tam has more of a "Noise Like Sonic Personality". It Produces a large number of Inharmonic Partials by Virtue of its Design This is "Why" no Definite Pitch can be Determined.</p>
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<p>But.. </p>
<p>The thing is, anyone who heard either Instrument would say, "Its A Gong" and That's How you Mic Them!</p>
<p>So I asked the Engineer "Who Actually Invented the Gong?" He didn't know, so I explained to him that it was actually the Chinese.</p>
<p>I asked him "What do the Chinese who Invented the Instrument, themselves Call the Instrument in Question, that you call a "Tam Tam"?" Again he didn't know, so I explained that they called it a "Gong".</p>
<p>What is the difference we are talking about here I asked? Again he didn't know, so I explained that the difference is in the "Type of Gong". What he would call a "Gong" features a Domed Bell in the Centre, and what he would call a "Tam Tam" has a Flat Centre with NO Domed Bell.</p>
<p>There were all Large Gongs involved in this Piece of Music, so I said to him, whether you prefer to call it a "Gong" or you know it as a "Tam Tam", trust me that if it Looks like a "Gong", if it is Played like a "Gong", and if it Sounds Exactly like a "Gong" it actually is a "Gong"!</p>
<p>Most especially so if the people who Actually Invented the Instrument in the first place.</p>
<p>Originally Referred to it as a "Gong"!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you "Mic It Up" the way you would a "Gong", all with be fine, I reassured him, (which was of course, what he really needed to know), and exactly what I had told him in the first place, but which he had questioned.</p>
<p>Then came the inexorably inevitable question from him. "Why do people call it a "Tam Tam" then?" Which Prompted the Immediate Answer "200 Years Ago, Europeans who enjoy Collecting Things (Even Countries), like to Make Lists, Give Titles and Apply Distinct Classifications to Various Types of the Similar Things, to Differentiate the Small Differences between them."</p>
<p>"So 200 Years ago, in Europe, a Deliberate Attempt was made to Completely Classify and Differentiate between All the Instruments of the Orchestra, to aid Composers in making their Sonic Intentions Better Understood. To Aid Conductors in Better Interpreting their Music, and to Aid Musicians as to the Clear, Practical Implementation of their Tasks. It is a Purely European Imposition of Names upon Musical Instruments whose Pedigree Derive No Historical and World Wide View of such in their Countries of Origin."</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then I asked him "Do you think that if you Invented a Musical Instrument, you should be Rightly Entitled to Give the Instrument its Name?"</p>
<p>"Of Course" he replied. I Answered "Well the Chinese who Originally Invented this Instrument, Originally Called it a Gong, and still do so Today in much of that Part of the World. So you are Safe in thinking of the Instrument, as a "Gong!"</p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p>The Need for Standardisation.</p>
<p>The Focus upon Minutiae and Drive for Distinct Classifications.</p>
<p>Is Symptomatic and Indicative of Western Cultural Influence, that Inventors and Originators Lack.</p>
<p> When you understand Who, Why and How the Banjo was Invented. And Understand All the Many Related Derivatives that Hybridised Multiple Existing Instruments to Produce New Cross Over Forms of Musical Instrument.</p>
<p>It is easy to understand Who, Why and How the Minutiae that is the Concern of this Thread Occurred. But Having a Wider Grasp of History, Of the Social and Economic Factors Involved, of the Cultures Impact of Migration and the Spread of Musical Forms as a Result are Key Factors to Properly Appreciate, as Explained in Earlier Posts.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,35027.20/wap2.html" rel="nofollow">http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,35027.20/wap2.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/fret-dot-at-the-9th-for-guitar-10th-for-mandos-etc-why?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A145130">http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/fret-dot-at-the-9th-for-guita...</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p>A Very Happy Easter!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>P</p>
<p></p> I had always understood that…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-04-02:2177249:Comment:1452842015-04-02T09:34:15.675ZSteve Bettesworthhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/SteveBettesworth
<p>I had always understood that the marker on the tenth fret was a throwback to the days of ukulele orchestras and playing in the key of c. I've a couple of 1920 Stellas which would fit in to the correct era and these are marked on the tenth. </p>
<p>I had always understood that the marker on the tenth fret was a throwback to the days of ukulele orchestras and playing in the key of c. I've a couple of 1920 Stellas which would fit in to the correct era and these are marked on the tenth. </p> I have a 1941 (F41) Harmony t…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-03-31:2177249:Comment:1450582015-03-31T18:12:15.937ZSteven D. Wilsonhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/StevenDWilson
<p>I have a 1941 (F41) Harmony tenor with a 10th fret dot</p>
<p>I have a 1941 (F41) Harmony tenor with a 10th fret dot</p> One point to ponder is that t…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-03-31:2177249:Comment:1450542015-03-31T15:07:33.862Zonewenthttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/onewent
<p>One point to ponder is that the Italian luthier, Maccaferri, designed the Selmer (10th fret dot), and the Oscar Schmidt guitar factory in Jersey City (10th fret dot) was staffed with a largely Italian luthier workforce.</p>
<p>Additionally, the vast majority guitars I've seen from the so-called Italian Luthiers guild (Netuno, Cerrito et al), working in Little Italy in the first part of the 20th century, have the dot placed at the 10th.</p>
<p> Schmidt factory made literally hundreds of…</p>
<p>One point to ponder is that the Italian luthier, Maccaferri, designed the Selmer (10th fret dot), and the Oscar Schmidt guitar factory in Jersey City (10th fret dot) was staffed with a largely Italian luthier workforce.</p>
<p>Additionally, the vast majority guitars I've seen from the so-called Italian Luthiers guild (Netuno, Cerrito et al), working in Little Italy in the first part of the 20th century, have the dot placed at the 10th.</p>
<p> Schmidt factory made literally hundreds of thousands of guitars in its hay day, many survive today, and you'll find the dot consistently at the 10th fret.</p>
<p>It's quite unusual to find a 10th fret dot in other American-made guitars from the first half of the 20th century. Regal, in Chicago, also mass-produced guitar by the zillions, and I know of one model, the Alamo, with a 10th fret dot.</p>
<p>Tom</p> It has been interesting to ki…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-03-29:2177249:Comment:1449562015-03-29T18:59:30.838ZMark McLeanhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MarkMcLean
<p>It has been interesting to kick these ideas around.</p>
<p>So, I have learned that the 9th or 10th position fret marker probably started as a pretty arbitrary thing, with a different tradition emerging among makers of American guitars (mostly at the 9th) and of other instruments (mostly 10th); and the tenor and Maccaferri guitars became an exceptions because of anticipated customer bases who were used to playing banjos. That sounds plausible. Thanks folks. </p>
<p>It has been interesting to kick these ideas around.</p>
<p>So, I have learned that the 9th or 10th position fret marker probably started as a pretty arbitrary thing, with a different tradition emerging among makers of American guitars (mostly at the 9th) and of other instruments (mostly 10th); and the tenor and Maccaferri guitars became an exceptions because of anticipated customer bases who were used to playing banjos. That sounds plausible. Thanks folks. </p> I read once that the tenor ba…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-03-29:2177249:Comment:1449532015-03-29T17:42:45.822ZJohnhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/John631
<p>I read once that the tenor banjo was originally called the tango banjo and that it was a typo that changed it to the tenor banjo. Just thought I'd add an extra bit of trivia into the mix.</p>
<p>I've wondered about ten fret thing as well but I've never found a good answer. I was very interested right after I made a banjo with the ninth fret marked.</p>
<p>I can see this thread turning into a game of Balderdash.</p>
<p>I read once that the tenor banjo was originally called the tango banjo and that it was a typo that changed it to the tenor banjo. Just thought I'd add an extra bit of trivia into the mix.</p>
<p>I've wondered about ten fret thing as well but I've never found a good answer. I was very interested right after I made a banjo with the ninth fret marked.</p>
<p>I can see this thread turning into a game of Balderdash.</p> Quote: "The placement of dot…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-03-28:2177249:Comment:1451302015-03-28T21:45:59.196ZPeter Poyserhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/PeterPoyser
<p>Quote: "The placement of dot is a very small detail that, even today, isn't truly standardized and I doubt that most of the "developmental" builders were all that concerned that they follow the standards used on other instruments. Todays mandolins and banjos have them in one place and guitar had them in another because, at some point that became "the way to do it"." </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p>Maccaferri and Selmer Maccaferri Instruments would be amongst the most notable exceptions to…</p>
<p>Quote: "The placement of dot is a very small detail that, even today, isn't truly standardized and I doubt that most of the "developmental" builders were all that concerned that they follow the standards used on other instruments. Todays mandolins and banjos have them in one place and guitar had them in another because, at some point that became "the way to do it"." </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p>Maccaferri and Selmer Maccaferri Instruments would be amongst the most notable exceptions to the Emerging Generally Accepted Standards we would Recognise and Expect Today.</p>
<p>Maccaferri's Guitars were Distributed and Sold by Selmer Paris (who had previously specialised in Brass Section/Woodwind Instruments) for only two years, before he parted with the Company, mainly setting up Production enacted by Italian Workers.</p>
<p>Whereupon thereafter Selmer Redesigned their own versions of the Maccaferri Style Guitars. Maccaferri's was a Luthier and Classical Guitarist who basically gave the latter up because of an Accident. He completely preceded Django Reinhardt's adoption and endorsement of the Maccaferri/Selmer Style Guitar and because of that, and quite incredibly, Maccaferri neither knew Reinhardt, nor his Music.(although Django also Played Guitars fabricated by Busato and Di Mauro and loved to borrow other Guitars when Photographed so it seemed as if he Owned and Played an Impressive Lot of Different Guitars, even American Ones).</p>
<p>Incredibly, Django Reinhardt's own involvement in an Accident not only resulted in a partial paralysis of two of his Fingerboard Digits, but Surgeons definitely wanted to amputate his paralysed right leg. Despite this he refused the Surgery and struggled on with a Cane for a Year, gradually regaining the use of his leg and becoming able to walk. His Brother Joseph (another Fine Guitarist) purchased a New Guitar for Django and gradual rehabilitation, heavy practise and relearning to Play the Guitar with his existing Two Good Fingers eventually paid off with Eventual Improvement and Outstanding Accomplishments.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Django was fairly scathing about the American Guitars he Played during a visit to America.</p>
<p>But although Django was Belgium and a Gypsy. In the 1930's, France (historically Europe's most populous nation) where he gained his reputation saw an Explosion in Migration much of whom came from former French Colonies.</p>
<p>African Americans, overwhelming descended from Africans of the Colonial Era swelled the population in France during the 1800's. It is reliably estimated that the numbers of what was known as the Free Blacks emigrating to Paris from Louisiana alone after Napoleon Bonaparte sold the Territory to the United States in the early 1800's was around 50,000.</p>
<p><strong>During WWI another 200,000 came over and thereafter a Large Community of African Americans was formed, the majority of which were from Southern States. Welcomed in France as Liberators and free of racial tensions in their Homeland, many decided to Re-settle in France. This heralded the birth of Jazz in France and Black Culture in Paris. Banjo's and their Traditional Placement of Dots, of course, came with them.</strong></p>
<p><strong>A Perfect Cultural Mix of Influences for the Emerging Talent of Django, whose Gypsy Heritage was of course already based around the Highly Portable Guitar, going back to Flamenco and Beyond.</strong></p>
<p><strong>This explains why the Maccaferri Selmer Guitars had Banjo, rather than Guitar based Dot Placement.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZBPcXTXPEA" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZBPcXTXPEA</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>P</p>
<p></p> It seems to me that the point…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2015-03-28:2177249:Comment:1451232015-03-28T18:52:16.028ZNed Knepphttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/NedKnepp
<p>It seems to me that the point that is missing is the idea that banjos, mandolins and guitars are all fundamentally different instruments that developed along parallel but different paths. The placement of dot is a very small detail that, even today, isn't truly standardized and I doubt that most of the "developmental" builders were all that concerned that they follow the standards used on other instruments. Todays mandolins and banjos have them in one place and guitar had them in another…</p>
<p>It seems to me that the point that is missing is the idea that banjos, mandolins and guitars are all fundamentally different instruments that developed along parallel but different paths. The placement of dot is a very small detail that, even today, isn't truly standardized and I doubt that most of the "developmental" builders were all that concerned that they follow the standards used on other instruments. Todays mandolins and banjos have them in one place and guitar had them in another because, at some point that became "the way to do it". I don't think there is any mysterious motives behind the difference, it's just mandolin builders making mandolins like other mandolin builders make mandolins with the same being true of guitar and banjo builders. Now, MOST builders tend to place them where players are used to seeing them.</p>
<p>It's pretty much settled that Tenor Guitars, wherever the first one was made, became a viable product for instrument builders because of the movement away from banjos in music in America.That's probably the reason that they are "tenor" guitars rather than developing into "base" ukuleles. The market they filled was as a transitional guitar for tenor banjo players. Wanting to sell as many tenor guitars as they can, it only makes sense that builders would make thing as easy as possible for their target market and place the dot where banjo players were use to seeing them. For all intents and purposes the instrument is a guitar body with a tenor banjo neck grafted to it. The idea that the dots on this "guitar" are placed like a banjo just simply makes sense and probably has nothing at all to do with tuning or anything else other than banjos and guitars being different instruments to begin with.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So, to sum up, I think that tenor guitars have dot placement like banjo's because they were pretty much a banjo with a guitar body which were initially marketed and sold to banjo players.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I think that dot placement probably started out as an arbitrary design decision with no one in any camp thinking about how the other instrument's dots were placed which resulted in the traditions we have today. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I think that how any instrument is tuned is a completely different topic and probably has nothing direct to do with dot placement. I would like to point out that almost all of the tenor guitars I've seen have short scales and are usually tuned either in 5th like a mandolin OR as the first four on a guitar but a 3rd higher. This appears to be a more modern tuning which only makes sense given the original nature of the tenor guitar as a guitar like banjo.</p>
<p>That's my "2 cents" worth. </p>