Positioning scarf joint - FRETS.NET2024-03-29T12:06:05Zhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/positioning-scarf-joint?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A190337&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks for the reply. Good to…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-15:2177249:Comment:1905012020-02-15T22:28:05.972ZAndrewhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Andrew715
<p>Thanks for the reply. Good to know you’ve got some protection too.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Ive no doubt your necks are about as strong as they come. It’d be nice to further immobilize the headstock, but yeah definitely a questionable gain for the cost/effort.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. Good to know you’ve got some protection too.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Ive no doubt your necks are about as strong as they come. It’d be nice to further immobilize the headstock, but yeah definitely a questionable gain for the cost/effort.</p> Hi Andrew,
Thanks for your co…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-07:2177249:Comment:1903402020-02-07T09:04:04.446ZRussell Vancehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Andrew,</p>
<p>Thanks for your concern mate: we were watching the water bombers bucketing the fires from our factory front door - not so bad as there was a river and a firebreak between us, but better there is no fire at all. </p>
<p>It's a question of how far you wish to go with reinforcements and whether the time and effort is worth the reward. The images attached show the extent of how far we go into the head-stock bearing in mind that the top plate on the head-stock is a 3/32…</p>
<p>Hi Andrew,</p>
<p>Thanks for your concern mate: we were watching the water bombers bucketing the fires from our factory front door - not so bad as there was a river and a firebreak between us, but better there is no fire at all. </p>
<p>It's a question of how far you wish to go with reinforcements and whether the time and effort is worth the reward. The images attached show the extent of how far we go into the head-stock bearing in mind that the top plate on the head-stock is a 3/32 piece of ebony which gives some additional strength to that area and also bears against the carbon fiber or titanium which is flushed to the peg-head facing. Shaping carbon fiber or titanium to go around the corner is doable but hellishly expensive and fiddly (at our level of making). </p>
<p>For what its worth, nobody has managed to break a headstock or neck on our guitars and we unconditionally warranty against that. Not that we think we are so good, but; if someone breaks one I'd like to see the pathology of the break and take steps to engineer it better. </p>
<p>C'ya</p>
<p>Rusty. </p> Hey Rusty. Hope you’ve been u…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-06:2177249:Comment:1903372020-02-06T11:35:55.877ZAndrewhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/Andrew715
<p>Hey Rusty. Hope you’ve been upwind of the flames down under.</p>
<p></p>
<p>If I may ask, is there a method where carbon fiber rods can be installed continuously up the neck and angled headstock? Would one have to use pre shaped pieces of CF?</p>
<p>Hey Rusty. Hope you’ve been upwind of the flames down under.</p>
<p></p>
<p>If I may ask, is there a method where carbon fiber rods can be installed continuously up the neck and angled headstock? Would one have to use pre shaped pieces of CF?</p> Hi Mac. hi all.
Firstly, in…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-06:2177249:Comment:1903332020-02-06T08:09:10.291ZRussell Vancehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
<p>Hi Mac. hi all.</p>
<p>Firstly, in no particular order, I use screws for locating stuff like scarf joints (stainless steel long humbucker ring mounting screws or similar) - this allows the glue joint to be slid back and forth to gain a better initial contact and grip and consistent glue thickness before getting the initial clamp down done with screws locating the thing accurately and applying some pressure before the clamps are located.. The ever-essential brads do not allow this…</p>
<p>Hi Mac. hi all.</p>
<p>Firstly, in no particular order, I use screws for locating stuff like scarf joints (stainless steel long humbucker ring mounting screws or similar) - this allows the glue joint to be slid back and forth to gain a better initial contact and grip and consistent glue thickness before getting the initial clamp down done with screws locating the thing accurately and applying some pressure before the clamps are located.. The ever-essential brads do not allow this cabinet making process of sliding the glued surfaces.</p>
<p>Secondly, in the imagery of neck joint configs - number (1) every time - you are gluing semi end-grain to long grain which makes for a weak joint. The number 1 config when capped with a fingerboard gives you a "birds beak" joint and twice the gluing area or method 2. Much stronger and when coupled with some short or full length carbon fiber reinforcements through the joint, which I believe is essential good practice, will give you half a chance if you drop the guitar on its head. My thoughts on carbon fiber (or Titanium) are that the only reason to not see it in necks is that it wasn't available or its too expensive or difficult for some. But a neck break is never cheap so its a good investment in a quality instrument. The added bonus of stability and strength is a given.</p>
<p>We glue scarf joints and center joints etc straight off the saw. Its an Altendorf, but any well tuned quality platform with a large enough planer/finishing style blade will do it. We keep my planes out in the kitchen to use as cheese graters.but occasionally I give them a run because its a nice feeling taking a shaving offa an edge.</p>
<p>Its also debatable that scarf joints are stronger in some way than one piece cut billet. Given that scarf joints are weaker by way of the end-grain gluing component and that a drop will stress a number (2) joint in exactly the same way as a cut billet I'm not convinced that that a scarf joint provides anything other than a cheaper input cost. </p>
<p>Most of what is here is drawn for experience with Electric Guitar building which sees additional operational stress being put on the joints from various factors. However, the basics of sticking things together in the strongest possible manner are much the same. </p>
<p>Regards, Rusty. </p>
<p> </p> Thanks Randall. The Brads tho…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-04:2177249:Comment:1900562020-02-04T09:16:50.995ZMac McElwainhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MacMcElwain577
<p>Thanks Randall. The Brads thought is a really good one - reminds me of using brads at 1st and 11th frets to hold a fingerboard still during gluing. I'll use the idea</p>
<p>MAC</p>
<p>Thanks Randall. The Brads thought is a really good one - reminds me of using brads at 1st and 11th frets to hold a fingerboard still during gluing. I'll use the idea</p>
<p>MAC</p> I've had luck bandsawing the…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-04:2177249:Comment:1901682020-02-04T03:17:50.912ZRandall Curtis Bowmanhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RandallCurtisBowman
<p>I've had luck bandsawing the joint, then cleaning up with sandpaper glued to a dead-flat surface. Once trued up, placing at least four brads on the outer edges prior to gluing will hold everything in place. The initial bandsawing is not without risk, but excess length is allowed towards the heel; then trimmed last. I drill holes for the brads using one for the bit. Just snip the head off. The headplate and backstrap will cover any errant holes, within reason. Just a thought from an…</p>
<p>I've had luck bandsawing the joint, then cleaning up with sandpaper glued to a dead-flat surface. Once trued up, placing at least four brads on the outer edges prior to gluing will hold everything in place. The initial bandsawing is not without risk, but excess length is allowed towards the heel; then trimmed last. I drill holes for the brads using one for the bit. Just snip the head off. The headplate and backstrap will cover any errant holes, within reason. Just a thought from an amateur.</p> Lovely - thanks. I was puzzle…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-01:2177249:Comment:1901612020-02-01T08:41:38.013ZMac McElwainhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MacMcElwain577
<p>Lovely - thanks. I was puzzled about how you matched it to the headstock angle. Now I'm not. Sounds like a good excuse to treat myself to a hot pipe! (I use a blanket for bending)</p>
<p>Lovely - thanks. I was puzzled about how you matched it to the headstock angle. Now I'm not. Sounds like a good excuse to treat myself to a hot pipe! (I use a blanket for bending)</p> A backstrap is often used fo…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-02-01:2177249:Comment:1901602020-02-01T08:19:49.118ZMark McLeanhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MarkMcLean
<p> A backstrap is often used for peghead repairs. Our host Frank Ford has a good pictorial/tutorial at frets.com:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHeadstocks/BackstrapOverlay/phoverlay.html" target="_blank">http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHeadstocks/BackstrapOverlay/phoverlay.html</a></p>
<p>(It is amazing to think he put that stuff up over 20 years ago - a real internet pioneer. But I digress). In that…</p>
<p> A backstrap is often used for peghead repairs. Our host Frank Ford has a good pictorial/tutorial at frets.com:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHeadstocks/BackstrapOverlay/phoverlay.html" target="_blank">http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/BrokenHeadstocks/BackstrapOverlay/phoverlay.html</a></p>
<p>(It is amazing to think he put that stuff up over 20 years ago - a real internet pioneer. But I digress). In that example he is putting mahogany over mahogany and trying to make it invisible, but if you follow the same routine with a contrasting timber you can make a feature out of it. I got this idea from Nigel Forster (check out his website for some inspiration), and Nigel describes it as being like how snooker cues are made. There are interesting Youtube videos available of that too, and they will help you understand how to glue up flat layers and then carve them into a round shape for the final effect. So, if you are doing this on a neck blank under construction you can do it after the scarf joint, while the blanks are still flat. The backstrap veneer is about 2.5 mm thick. An offcut of side material works well. Bend it on a hot pipe (a sharp crease, not a gentle bend), to match the angle of your scarf joint. Glue it to the neck blank and then proceed to carve your curved neck profile. You will carve off most of the backstrap material on the neck and only a thin tapering strip will remain in the centre. You will need to adjust the overall thickness of the neck and peghead by taking some material off the front, so that it maintains your desired dimensions. </p> Yep - that's pretty much what…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-01-31:2177249:Comment:1900522020-01-31T20:59:09.353ZMac McElwainhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MacMcElwain577
<p>Yep - that's pretty much what I do, except that my order has been different. I will revise that. I very much like the look of the back strap and would like to try one. Could you share a bit more on how you do it? Cheers, MAC</p>
<p>Yep - that's pretty much what I do, except that my order has been different. I will revise that. I very much like the look of the back strap and would like to try one. Could you share a bit more on how you do it? Cheers, MAC</p> Table saw with sled every tim…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2020-01-31:2177249:Comment:1902302020-01-31T20:56:50.577ZMac McElwainhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/MacMcElwain577
<p>Table saw with sled every time for me. Gives terrific control over a nerve-wracking moment!</p>
<p>Table saw with sled every time for me. Gives terrific control over a nerve-wracking moment!</p>