Tuner hole repair question - FRETS.NET2024-03-28T16:31:30Zhttps://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/tuner-hole-repair-question?commentId=2177249%3AComment%3A42898&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAn update for my 'little proj…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-10-01:2177249:Comment:428982010-10-01T03:30:16.406ZRichard Barberahttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RichardBarbera
An update for my <i>'little project'</i> that I finished up. A big thanx to Rusty for his know-how and the info he provided me with to see this through. Although a little intimadating at first, It turned out to be more time consuming than degree of difficulty. But when doing anything for the 1st time...I seem to struggle. The greying aroung the Gibson logo was where all the difficulty lie & is barely visible, but not enough for me to fret over.<br></br>
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For final coat, I shot a lacquer w/…
An update for my <i>'little project'</i> that I finished up. A big thanx to Rusty for his know-how and the info he provided me with to see this through. Although a little intimadating at first, It turned out to be more time consuming than degree of difficulty. But when doing anything for the 1st time...I seem to struggle. The greying aroung the Gibson logo was where all the difficulty lie & is barely visible, but not enough for me to fret over.<br/>
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For final coat, I shot a lacquer w/ Amber tint added in, to warm the inlay up a bit. The tuner tips were then ambered-up w/ Woodcraft's Honey Amber Trans-Tints, so everything would match.<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2001718/2458/Honey-Amber--TransTint-Dyes.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2001718/2458/Honey-Amber--TransTin...</a><br/>
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<i>One last question:</i> Would I have been better off, staining the fiber black first off?<br/>
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Overall, I am very pleased & Thx again Rusty!<br/>
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[IMG]<a rel="nofollow" href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/ES-335Hdstkfinal005.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/ES-335Hdstkfinal0...</a>[/IMG]<br/>
[IMG]<a rel="nofollow" href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/ES-335hdstock007-1.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/ES-335hdstock007-...</a>[/IMG] That's where the black shader…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-22:2177249:Comment:407552010-09-22T05:32:04.150ZRussell Vancehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
That's where the black shader comes in - get it all flat and ready and then spray a lightly dyed black shader over the lot - the pearl will lose a little of its brightness , but not enough to be noticeable as it will be consistently darker and then spray on a final clear and buff. Remember, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!<br />
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The shader is clear lacquer with a touch of black dye dye (Colortone/MEK or spirit based) mixed in. Just enough dye so when the mix is swilled around a glass jar…
That's where the black shader comes in - get it all flat and ready and then spray a lightly dyed black shader over the lot - the pearl will lose a little of its brightness , but not enough to be noticeable as it will be consistently darker and then spray on a final clear and buff. Remember, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!<br />
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The shader is clear lacquer with a touch of black dye dye (Colortone/MEK or spirit based) mixed in. Just enough dye so when the mix is swilled around a glass jar the sides of the jar turn a gray colour (for those who want to see what a dye set will look like when sprayed as a coat this is the way to see it).<br />
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Rusty Took your advise Rusty about…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-21:2177249:Comment:407492010-09-21T23:46:04.647ZRichard Barberahttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RichardBarbera
Took your advise Rusty about lightly misting on the color coats. The black went on much better than my previous attempts. Everything's looking up & I'm almost ready to spray the final coats of clear.<br />
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<i>One thing though:</i> I've got the area around crown inlay edges all colored-in w/ the black & no grey is visible. However, the inlayed Gibson logo is being stubborn & it's surrounding edges keep showing a bit of the fiber color. Not much, but not 100%.<br />
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So far, I've gone over the…
Took your advise Rusty about lightly misting on the color coats. The black went on much better than my previous attempts. Everything's looking up & I'm almost ready to spray the final coats of clear.<br />
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<i>One thing though:</i> I've got the area around crown inlay edges all colored-in w/ the black & no grey is visible. However, the inlayed Gibson logo is being stubborn & it's surrounding edges keep showing a bit of the fiber color. Not much, but not 100%.<br />
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So far, I've gone over the inlays about 5 or 6 times w/ the clear/color spraying combination & the gray looks like it might be slowly fading/disappearing. Not sure if I should be waiting hours/days between all these coats or not? When scrubbing down to the pearl, the steel wool does not have any drag to it at all & the following clear coat sprays on great, except for that little bit of <i>'grey shadowing'</i> around the logo. Not sure if I should keep try hide it w/ more coats or...? Thx Again Rusty...
As suspec…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-21:2177249:Comment:406942010-09-21T05:57:39.055ZRichard Barberahttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RichardBarbera
Thx Again Rusty...<br />
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As suspect, I've been flooding-on the black on way too thick. It's the Italian in me...more is better, ya know! I'll give the 'dusting' approach a go & see how that works. Thing is, I've been a pro-painter for 40 years & in my time, I've have done my share of shooting nitro. But finishing guitars, esp in gloss black can be trying & a whole new game. I do have a little airbrush unit w/ 3 or 4 guns, so if it comes to that, I'll use it!<br />
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<i>Funny thing is:</i> my…
Thx Again Rusty...<br />
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As suspect, I've been flooding-on the black on way too thick. It's the Italian in me...more is better, ya know! I'll give the 'dusting' approach a go & see how that works. Thing is, I've been a pro-painter for 40 years & in my time, I've have done my share of shooting nitro. But finishing guitars, esp in gloss black can be trying & a whole new game. I do have a little airbrush unit w/ 3 or 4 guns, so if it comes to that, I'll use it!<br />
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<i>Funny thing is:</i> my wife bought the airbrush rig to blow makeup/toner onto her face. Used it once and said 'forgetta bout it'! Subsequently, It went right out to my shop after that... Rich I can assure you at 58 e…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-21:2177249:Comment:406932010-09-21T05:08:53.072ZRussell Vancehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
Rich I can assure you at 58 everything is just as confusing (I actually have some of my spray schedules written on the wall in big letters!) Yep, consistent jet black is the look, and, I use a commercial spray rig which is a little easier to control, but when using a rattle can I would be inclined to spray a number of very light dust coats (just a couple of passes) to gradually build up the color coat - the clear coats on top of this will smooth out the dusty look of thin coats and give a good…
Rich I can assure you at 58 everything is just as confusing (I actually have some of my spray schedules written on the wall in big letters!) Yep, consistent jet black is the look, and, I use a commercial spray rig which is a little easier to control, but when using a rattle can I would be inclined to spray a number of very light dust coats (just a couple of passes) to gradually build up the color coat - the clear coats on top of this will smooth out the dusty look of thin coats and give a good build up for subsequent sanding - that way the color coats are not interfered with. Also with the cans give them a vigorous shake for as long as you can stand it and keep em warm (not hot) for an hour or two before use. Yup, at 63... everything's a…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-21:2177249:Comment:406922010-09-21T04:48:40.951ZRichard Barberahttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RichardBarbera
Yup, at 63... everything's a little confusing Rusty...lol!<br />
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I've got it all sanded smooth (very smooth) w/ no shiny spots showing & there are no gaps (sinking), where the pearl inlay edges join the fiber. It looks ok, except I still have a gray cast to the face & not a jet black! I wiped it down w/ Naphtha to see what it might look like 'wet', but it still stays grey looking?<br />
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The black rattle nitro can I'm using, leaves a whole lot of 'orange peel'. I'm going to let it be overnite…
Yup, at 63... everything's a little confusing Rusty...lol!<br />
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I've got it all sanded smooth (very smooth) w/ no shiny spots showing & there are no gaps (sinking), where the pearl inlay edges join the fiber. It looks ok, except I still have a gray cast to the face & not a jet black! I wiped it down w/ Naphtha to see what it might look like 'wet', but it still stays grey looking?<br />
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The black rattle nitro can I'm using, leaves a whole lot of 'orange peel'. I'm going to let it be overnite & see if it sprays better tomorrow after drying all nite. Me thinks, I'm spraying too soon between coats & it's causing the nitro to react & wander into islands...if that makes any sense? I'll move forward <i>as you describe</i> from where I'm at right now, since the hdstk face is void of any pitting/sinking.<br />
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Before spraying the final clear coats, I should be looking at ----> <i><b>a jet black hdstk & no hints of grey coloring?</b></i> :>)<br />
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Thx, Rich Yep, the gray fiber is the cu…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-21:2177249:Comment:406902010-09-21T03:34:27.020ZRussell Vancehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
Yep, the gray fiber is the culprit and that's the reason to spray the peghead with at least one coat of black 'paint' before embarking on a refinish - spray the pigmented coat on then scrub around the inlay to reveal it again and then spray a clear coat over the exposed inlay area and then another black pigment coat again, repeat the reveal of the inlay again until it looks even and does not show any of the fiber - clear coat with a couple of coats so you don't sand through the pigment coats…
Yep, the gray fiber is the culprit and that's the reason to spray the peghead with at least one coat of black 'paint' before embarking on a refinish - spray the pigmented coat on then scrub around the inlay to reveal it again and then spray a clear coat over the exposed inlay area and then another black pigment coat again, repeat the reveal of the inlay again until it looks even and does not show any of the fiber - clear coat with a couple of coats so you don't sand through the pigment coats when flattening it all out, sand it flat, spray a black shader coat, steel wool the inlay area to get some of the shader off it and then a couple of clearcoats , wet sand and buff.<br />
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Do not sand between color coats and the clears and you do not sand the shader coats - you cover it with a number of clears and then sand it flat to avoid breaking through the color/shader coats. I always clearcoat color coats before sanding to prevent changing the tone of the color by sanding it unevenly.<br />
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Sanding sealer is only used on the initial 'size' of the bare fiber. Sorry this stuff can get a little confusing but the main issue is to get the peghead a consistent black color rather than a patchy fiber color and then get enough clear over it to allow a sanding and buff without breaking through the underlying color. Rusty. ..."hit the area over the inl…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-21:2177249:Comment:406872010-09-21T01:15:25.241ZRichard Barberahttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RichardBarbera
<i>..."hit the area over the inlay with a clear coat and then a paint coat".</i><br />
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<i><b>Rusty</b></i>, When you say to hit the area w/ a clear coat, do you mean Sand 'n Seal or clear lacquer? I'm having a problem hiding the unevenness of the underlying grays/black of the fiberboard. The black nitro spray I have is a gloss black from Stew-Mac. I shot that on and it scrubbed it off the pearl ok, but in doing that I think I scrubbed down to the fiber again, yielding that unevenness of blacks. When…
<i>..."hit the area over the inlay with a clear coat and then a paint coat".</i><br />
<br />
<i><b>Rusty</b></i>, When you say to hit the area w/ a clear coat, do you mean Sand 'n Seal or clear lacquer? I'm having a problem hiding the unevenness of the underlying grays/black of the fiberboard. The black nitro spray I have is a gloss black from Stew-Mac. I shot that on and it scrubbed it off the pearl ok, but in doing that I think I scrubbed down to the fiber again, yielding that unevenness of blacks. When I first began I don't think I sanded the fiber completely all the way down, so it all looked totally gray, which might have caused the uneven color tones...?<br />
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I stripped it all down & started from scratch again. The rings were so deeply inbedded in the hdstk, that partial sanding & drop-filling would not of worked! The outside edge of the large washers had bit into the fiber so hard that the lacquer was cracked all around in a circle. It was plain to see that the lacquer had lost it's adhesion. Not much choice, but to <i>'take it all the way down'.</i> Rings are gone, now to get it back to looking good! One other question! Do you sand between coats of clear & color? Yep, all blacks aren't the sa…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-20:2177249:Comment:406372010-09-20T12:57:33.586ZRussell Vancehttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RussellVance
Yep, all blacks aren't the same shade - blending in black stains/paint with existing shades of black or different tones of black within the same repair schedule can be tricky and exposure to stage lighting or bright light in general often reveals this difference. The black shader 'nornalizes' the finish shade overall the peghead.<br />
This shader is just a faint hint of black stain and can go over the inlays without being noticeable (Gibson appears to have used this technique) and provides a belt…
Yep, all blacks aren't the same shade - blending in black stains/paint with existing shades of black or different tones of black within the same repair schedule can be tricky and exposure to stage lighting or bright light in general often reveals this difference. The black shader 'nornalizes' the finish shade overall the peghead.<br />
This shader is just a faint hint of black stain and can go over the inlays without being noticeable (Gibson appears to have used this technique) and provides a belt and braces approach to getting everything even. Hope this clears it up. It, s not the simplest schedule but it works. Good luck, Rusty. Thank you Rusty. Your schedul…tag:fretsnet.ning.com,2010-09-19:2177249:Comment:406042010-09-19T23:01:14.663ZRichard Barberahttps://fretsnet.ning.com/profile/RichardBarbera
Thank you Rusty. Your schedule looks a bit intimidating. I do have all the materials to do the refin. Not sure I quite understand the...<i>"then spray a 'faint' black shader (lacquer plus a touch of stain)</i> part. What is the purpose of mixing stain w/ the Lacquer? Is it just to keep the <i>black color</i> consistant over the entire face of the Hdstk?
Thank you Rusty. Your schedule looks a bit intimidating. I do have all the materials to do the refin. Not sure I quite understand the...<i>"then spray a 'faint' black shader (lacquer plus a touch of stain)</i> part. What is the purpose of mixing stain w/ the Lacquer? Is it just to keep the <i>black color</i> consistant over the entire face of the Hdstk?