attempting my first neck replacement/refretting project soon........

[Robert Meeks]

I have an early 80's Sigma HD28 R that has a cracked neck. I have tried two reputable luthiers, who shall remain nameless, to try to get the neck replaced. Both of them turned me down because they were afraid of damaging the guitar during the removal of the neck because of the epoxy that was used to assemble them. I have decided to make this a pet project of mine. I have done some minor refretting before on my own instruments, but nothing this major. I was wondering if anyone would have any constructive advice before I get started? Also......I was considering binding the new fretboard but I havent been able to find out about fretting the instrument with binding on the edges, all of my fretting experience has been on un-bound fretboards. Im making my own steam rig out of a teapot that I am modifying, and a single electric burner. Im using a heatlamp to loosen the lower part of the fretboard from the soundboard and a stiff ,oblique spatula to separate it. Im also building a jig of my own design to separate the dovetail once steam is applied. I contacted Martin about the "epoxy" used on these guitars.....according to them, my particular instrument was probably put together with cold hide glue instead of epoxy. Im guessing this is something simaller to titebond which I have expiremented with and titebond releases fairly well when steam is applied to it.....at least when its applied to two pieces of plywood. Any advice would be appreciated,

                       Thanks,

                         Robert Meeks Jr

[Ned Knepp]

Hi Robert,

  Are you sure the crack can't be repaired?  

 

[Robert Meeks]

The crack probably could be repaired......but I wanted a different profile neck on this instrument

[Frank Ford]

I'd be one of those luthiers who would decline doing neck replacement, mainly because of the low cost/value relationship when working on an instrument with low cash value.

 

That said, I encourage you to dig into this project, if for no other reason than it will be a great learning experience.  As you contemplate neck removal, be aware that those instruments may have some variation in their neck attachment.  I've seen some Japanese guitars with nonremovable dowels in place of the conventional dovetail.

 

You might save some angst and effort by removing the fingerboard with heat and the spatula you mentioned. Then, you could see the dovetail, if present.   Or, you could simply cut the neck off up close to the body, and take the joint apart in pieces by chiseling, routing, drilling or whatever technique seems most comfortable.

[Robert Meeks]

Frank,

   True....this is a low dollar value instrument in and of itself, but it does have one of the best looking bearclaw spruce tops i have ever seen, and quite honestly, I like the sound of it. This one in particular is an American made Sigma and has a standard dovetail joint (the fellows at the Martin custom shop told me about the dowels in some of the Japanese Sigmas), The american made Sigmas and basically a Martin made with wood that didnt pass Martin's quality code. The Japanese Sigmas are a different breed entirely. What would your opinion be on the bound fretboard? Or should I keep it simple for my first time and use a standard flush sanded bretboard. Im purchasing everything from Stew-Mac so all the parts will be new...I.E. Ill have room to cit and shape as I need to.

       Thanks,

               Bob

[Ned Knepp]

I don't know what changes you want to make to the neck profile but if you remove the existing fret board carefully, it should be usable and, unless it completely thrashed, I would use it on the new neck. For myself, stuff always happens and the simple fix always gets more complicated. I like to try to keep it all as simple as I can because, too often, it gets more complicated on it's own.  

 

I've never heard of US made Sigmas. I have one that, if I remember correctly, I bought in the mid '70s. How do you tell the difference between the Japanese made instruments and the US made Instruments? 

 

Ned

[Robert Meeks]

Ned,

   Sounds like you have the same luck I do. Actually Im replacing the fretboard because Im moving up to a 1 3/4 nud width so the factory board wont work....that and the fact Ive put a TON on miles on this old girl and theres actually divots worn into it. I honestly dont know how to tell a US made Sigma from a Japanese made.....I gave Martin the serial number over the phone and he immediately said it was a US made instrument. Theres no "Made in...." sticker anywhere on it and Im the only owner of it. I bought it in 1982 ish brand new in Thorndale Pa. Im hoping to get to this project within the next week after finals are over at school (im currently a 40 year old student). Im actually thinking now of NOT binding the fretboard so as not to add to an already involved process. I am going to re-shape the soundboard braces though. Ill post some in-progress pics as I go though,

                             Cheers,

                                 Bob

[Frank Ford]

Well, I for one, don't recall ever hearing of an American made Sigma.  Sigma was the brand Martin attached to their imported line of guitars from Japan (later, Korea). 

 

Remember the "Shenandoah" series from Martin?  Those were 100% made in Japan, imported as unfinished necks and bodies.  Martin lacquered them, added pickups and cases, and was legally allowed to stamp them "Made in USA."  We and some other service-oriented dealers refused to carry them until, after a good while, Martin changed the label to read "assembled in USA from imported components," or thereabouts.

 

The first of the Shenandoahs were called "Martin Sigma" with the corresponding decal on the headstock.

 

I think you'll find your Sigma is a laminated back/sides import, too.  

 

Regardless, enjoy your project!

[Ned Knepp]

I bought the Sigma I have because it was within my budget, better than the guitar I had started learning on and it looked and sounded like a... well it looked like a martin.  When I learned more about guitars, I figured out that it wasn't a "martin" but it was the right guitar for me at the time. It also taught me how to look at the edges on the sound hole to determine of the top is solid. (It isn't.) 

 

 I still have it because, well because I still have it. I carried it around at school 30 some years ago and my son did the same with it in the last decade.  It's not strung up anymore because the bridge plate is loose on the ends and the top was starting to bulge a bit.  As I write this I realize that I should fix it and give it to my nieces next week when they visit, then they can carry it around at school for a while. Not a bad life for a low priced plywood "martin". 

 

Ned

[Robert Meeks]

At any rate....the lineage of the guitar isnt as omportant as the experience of my first neck reset. Any advice on the advantages/disadvantages of using cold as opposed to hot hide glue? Im trying to gather as much info/advice as I can before I rip into this project. Im planning on making my neck removal jig soon and gathering my materials so i want to have all of my ducks in a row so to speak. Ive decided to not do binding on the fretboard to keep the fretwork as straightforward as possible. I know Im not doing inlays on the fretboard itself....I like the clean look of no inlays. My D35 is plenty fancy for me.......Im building this 28 as a beater project. I am also thinking of replacing the bridge to accomadate the 1 3/4" nut spacing and Im really considering a pre-war style bridge and long saddle......any thoughts to that effect? Im also re-shaping the braces in the process. This thing could end up being a cannon or a smoker......wont know till I string it up the first time.

                     Cheers,

                          Bob

[Paul Verticchio]

If you plan on changing the width of the FB & nut, you must also replace or modify the bridge to accommodate the different string spacing & geometry.

 

If you have no idea how to re-fret a bound fingerboard...DON'T...until you've acquired either Dan Erliwine's Guitar Repair Guide OR his book on Fretting.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Frett...

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Frett...

 

Invest time in reading the instructions over & over and then practice on a yard sale special until you're confident with your skills.

 

Sounds like a fun project.  Best of luck (: