Advice on gluing an ebony archtop finger rest back onto it's base

[Michael Rogers]

I *just* singed up here so I'm a real newbie.  I have an American Archtop 7-string made by Dale Unger (who I believe does the Martin's archtops now or was recently). It's basically a Benedetto style "cello guitar", but the laminated model that mere mortals like me can afford. Yesterday, my dog knocked it off a stand and it landed face down. Fortunately the only damage appears to be that the elevated finger rest broke off of it's base connecting it to the neck. Many of you probably know this, but in these designs, the finger rest is glued to a block base that is screwed in at the treble of side of the neck at it's base.The pickup is mounted to the finger rest. All of the electronics seem intact - it's "hanging" by the cord right now (actually the finger rest and pickup is wrapped in my cleaning cloth in the case).

The attachment area between the base and fingerboard is something like 1/4" by 1" (I didn't measure it) and was originally glued somehow. The glued seam broke fairly cleanly, except that starting slightly past half-way along the length, it picked up a little ramp-like layer from the pickguard, no more than a mm or so thick at the end.  It's even across the width and smooth, though, as one would expect with ebony. Even though I have no woodworking stuff, this seems like it should be a simple fix that I can do myself:  Unscrew the base piece and glue it back to the finger rest, clamping, if necessary, with a small clamp I can get cheaply at a hardware store.  (I would prefer not to completely remove it since I don't have a soldering gun, either.) However, I know the re-glued joint needs to be quite sturdy and, hopefully, long-lasting, and I don't know the right way to glue these two ebony pieces together to achieve that. (I assume the block is ebony, too.)  The web is full of advice on gluing things like ebony, but people seem to have different opinions about what's best. I figured some people in this forum would know the best glue/epoxy or whatever that I should use for this particular application.  Any other advice  here, would be  appreciated.

[Kerry Krishna]

 We need some pictures  Michael. I'm sure you will get the help you need here on the Forum too!

[Hesh Breakstone]

+1 on the pics please?

[Michael Rogers]

OK, ok.  I'll give it another day to send pictures. It's just a nearly clean break of the finger rest from the joint with the mounting block, though.  It just kept a small, thin wedge from the neck end (I *think* that's right) of the mounting block on the back of the finger rest - just about a third of the length - a mm or two thick.  The block is something like 1/2" x 1/2" cm x 1 1/2".   But the wood there has no loose grains or gaps so it fits back snugly.  So I figured this should be an easy fix as long as I use the right glue and follow the right procedures.

[Michael Rogers]

I don't have pictures now, but I did this from work and looked at it again last night, took off the mounting block and checked out how it fits on the finger rest.  It looks like this is going to be pretty easy.  Actually, the little sliver that came off was from the mounting block, which makes a lot more sense because it seems softer and I don't believe it's ebony - it also has the mounting holes drilled in it. But it's solid dark brown to black hardwood, whatever it is. That part really only covers about a third of the length of the block, less than a cm long.  Also, the tear is as smooth as it could possibly be, with just some very small grainy roughness and nothing loose or missing. And most of the join just broke on the glue seam. It fits like a puzzle piece with no gaps.  So I was really asking about glues and the like. From what I saw on the web from Mr. Ford's older blog postings it seems that best practice would be to wipe it with acetone - at least the ebony finger rest - and then glue it with hide glue. I guess you don't need a clamp for that but it probably couldn't hurt. I haven't done that yet, because I need to get some stuff first and I wanted to see what you folks recommend.  But I think that's probably the answer and I'll try to do that tonight if I don't hear from you guys that I should do something else.

[LARRY KLOSE]

I did this in a similar situation on my archtop guitar using ACC.  It held for a while then I had to do it again.  I used ACC gel the second time and it's been fine for several years.  From what you describe, my mounting block is a lot smaller than yours.  Do you have some kind of stress relief at the bridge end, like a foam or cork pad under the pot (if there is one)?  That will relieve a lot of stress on that long lever.  If there's a bracket, that solves the problem.

I'm developing a belief about ACC with wood that says the first application, especially of the "thin" viscosity stuff, tends to be absorbed in the grain of the wood.  That seals it, but the joint doesn't seem to be very strong, too much glue is absorbed.  Once sealed, it seems to hold much better on the second hit.  The dilemma on a wood joint that breaks cleanly and fits back together is that I can't just apply glue to the open joint and let it dry, then apply again,  lest some of the glue cause separation of the tight fit.  And I'd never use ACC on a high tension joint--it just doesn't seem to do well with a lot of tension or torque on the joint.

Larry

[Michael Rogers]

I'm going from memory, but I guessed the block is 1/2" x 1/2" by 1 1/2" above.  That's pretty close anyway. And yes, it has stress relief on the bridge end under the pot.  There's a little black support piece that was a little flexible before holding it back in place to examine things. Maybe it's foam.  It seems to be undamaged, but I just saw that it still functioned and didn't think to check that out more carefully.  Maybe it's not supposed to be flexible.  One more thing to check out, but I think it's OK.  

I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole-hill here, because this isn't a high tension joint - at least not the way I play, since I more often play with a pick and when I play finger-style I seldom anchor to anything  (and that still wouldn't be really high-tension). I'm still leaning toward hide glue, though, since that seems so standard with luthiers and instrument repair people and I just don't want to be having to do this all over again in a couple days.

[Steve Williams]

The standard is HOT hide glue.  A learning curve becomes involved with hot hide glue.  I would go with Larry's suggestion and use super glue.

[Michael Rogers]

Thanks for that. But, will it hold? I suppose since this isn't normally a stressed joint, it's probably nothing to worry about.

[LARRY KLOSE]

Mine's been OK for about 4 years or more.  And the mounting tab is small enough that I worry more about it splitting than that the glue will fail.  If the latter happens, I'd glue it again, assuming it's a clean break.

Larry

[Michael Rogers]

Sorry, no pics today.  By the time my kids got to bed last night and I did some house work, I was totally exhausted and just went to bed.  But I think I'll just take up Larry Klose's suggestion on this.  It's funny.  My 13 year-old daughter googled "repairing pick guards" or something similar and came back with super glue as an answer within about a minute after it broke, but I wanted to be sure I glued it the best way I could at home, so I asked here. Also, I wasn't sure that would work for an ebony finger rest.  That's probably all I'll do now.  But it clearly seemed that it should be simple enough to do myself, rather than take it to a shop and pay 10 times as much.

[Paul Verticchio]

Good luck, Michael. You'll do a great job.

"rather than take it to a shop and pay 10 times as much."

I think you'd be surprised in that a PROFESSIONAL repairman would do the repair for just a few bucks. It's one of the easiest and elementary tasks in the repair world.

It's only the hacks of the world who would charge more than $5 for this repair.

A good natured professional might even do it for free. Professionals have good hearts :)