Yamaha FG 180 question: cracked bridge

[Meredith DeVoe]

Hi, I have lived in Jos, Nigeria for 10 years and since there is no guitar repair here, I have had to learn a thing or two. I hope you don't mind a non-luthier posting here. I am really on my own with any guitar problems here!

Recently I was given a Yamaha FG 180 Nippon Gakki red label that has sat around for many years untouched, with tension on the strings. I want to get it playable temporarily to assess whether it is worth carting back to the States for more extensive repair.

The bridge had a crack between the peg holes, I gather a rather typical thing. I cleaned out the crack of 15 years of harmattan (dust that blows in from the Sahara) and forced glue in with a syringe, then took tension off the 4 remaining strings and removed them and the pins, and cleaned out excess glue. I am hoping that releasing the tension allowed the crack to close up at least a little. A few hours later, I added glue because it had shrunk into the crack, and cleaned up again.

I plan to replace the saddle, then string up and do what I can with the truss rod. 

My question is this: If my bridge repair holds, is there compelling reason to replace it? More details that might help: The saddle had been shaved down so far that the strings were cutting into the wood between the pin holes and the saddle. I assume the previous owner/player didn't know how to adjust a neck and wanted to lower the action.

(BTW the bridge plate looks okay. There are no body cracks, no bridge belly, etc. Some gap at the back of the heel, so a neck reset is in order IF the guitar seems worth it.It has a lot of cosmetic damage, so I don't want to pour $$$ into a guitar that will never return the investment. It will just be a nice beater for me.)

Thank you.

[Glen H]

IMO, no reason to replace it if it is performing its function.  Support the saddle and secure the string ends.  Bigger need is as you identified, the neck reset.  I've owned and seen many Yamaha's with splits across the pin holes.

[Len Biglin]

The crack is likely allowing some stress down onto the soundboard and bridge plate , trying to stretch to holes but probably not a big deal , what glue did you use ? If you have hide glue (which is an old fashioned thing they may have in Africa) you might as well get some into the heel gap , with strings  loose , and arrange some weights or clamps to close it right up . Note with hide glue only a quick setup time before it gels . The glue you use needs to be reversible if you want to do a good job when back home . Look at FRETS.COM for tips on repairs .

[Meredith DeVoe]

Thanks, Len!

[Meredith DeVoe]

Thanks, Glen. I looked from underneath using the selfie function on my phone (haha) because I was concerned about the bridge plate. I was pleasantly surprised by how good things look inside. 

[John Yungbluth]

I'm a hobbyist, not a professional. 

I always gravitate toward old Yamaha's.  The red labels get my attention locally when they come up for sale. 

Start by doing a little research on the value of the guitar.  Hunt down internet sale prices.  What's it worth to you?

Take a close look into the neck angle.  Return shipping and then a neck reset adds up quickly.  There are a lot of variables to take into account.  Professionals on the site will be better to help you with value and an estimated cost of repair.

You state there is a gap at the back of the heel, how much and how far up the heel does it go?  Is the neck loose?  Gently see if you can feel any looseness, can you re-seat the heel with a little pressure?

Is the neck straight, or is it bowed up or even back bowed?  Sight down the sides of the neck /finger board from the body forward to the headstock to get a good visual look.  Or fret the high E string at the first and 14th fret and visibly check the string clearance at the 7th fret.  Repeat on the Low E. 

If the neck is straight, pass over the adjustments below and go to the measuring process.

ADJUSTMENT

If you can adjust the neck truss rod, loosen the strings, I believe this will be a single rod with a removable nut. gently back off the truss rod nut, remove and lightly lubricate its threads.   Re-apply the nut and gently tighten the nut until it  contacts the neck.  Re-examine the neck for bow.  If needed, SLOWLY make adjustments in small 1/16th - 1/8 turns.  Re-examining neck after each adjustment.  Since this guitar has sat so long, take your time.  After 3-4 small adjustments let it sit a day.  Then do some more AS NEEDED, checking after each adjustment. slowly make adjustments until it looks fairly straight. 

Bring strings back to tension.  Re-examine the neck for bow.  If needed, SLOWLY make adjustments in small 1/16th - 1/8 turns.  Re-examining neck after each adjustment.  Since this guitar has sat so long, take your time.  After 3-4 small adjustments let it sit a day.  Then do some more AS NEEDED, checking after each adjustment.

STOP AT ANY POINT if you get uncomfortable with the tension needed to make the small adjustments.

This is just a starting point to measure the neck angle.  A solid neck joint, the straighter the neck, the more accurate the assessment.

MEASUREMENT

If you have access to a 24 inch ruler, lay it across the frets down the neck.  Slide it to the bridge and see how it contacts the bridge in front of the saddle. 

The first picture shows a good neck/body angle.  Ruler slides over the top or is just touching the top of the bridge.

If the ruler contacts the front vertical edge of the bridge, second picture, you are indeed heading for the reset you mentioned above.

 Long winded, but I hope it helps a little bit. 

[Meredith DeVoe]

Thanks John! Very helpful info. The glue is a wood glue called Top Bond, I would have preferred Elmer's wood glue, or Titebond, but I asked a carpenter here for wood glue and he gave me some. It seems to work well in this climate, which is 150% humidity for 5 months and Sahara desert for 7 (serious humidification needed with wet sponges in perforated baggies). 

I had no idea I might be able to fix the heel in that way. I can slide an index card in about 1/4" along 3/4" of the treble side of the heel. I will look into that. And check the neck angle with a metal ruler, which I will have to borrow from my workplace (I am a teacher). 

In the banged-up condition it's in, it might fetch a couple hundred dollars. It's very very scratched and dinged, but all cosmetic, I don't mind that if it plays and sounds good, which the FG180 is known for. 

[Meredith DeVoe]

I just found this on the Yamaha FAQ: 

"Dating Yamaha Acoustic guitars With 7 digit numerical serial numbers,
.
HINT::These were made in the 1967 thru 1976 timeframe.These Serials Will Have No Letters and Start With Either 0 or 1.

 1)      On these guitars, the exact date is unknown as the serial numbers were allocated sequentially amongst all models being made in a production day, The next guitar off of the line regardless of model number got the next serial number. This means that the serial number is not tied to the manufacturing date.  Frequently these will be a guitar made in Taiwan and there will be a “T” in front of the serial number."

This fits the description of my serial number, so the guitar is much older than I thought!

[Ned Knepp]

Just thought I'd point out that, if you are coming to the States, it might be easier to just wait until you get here and find another one. Yamaha guitars of this vintage aren't all that rare and don't usually go for a lot (comparatively speaking). Most of them will need a  neck reset at the least, but you won't have paid to ship it over here for the repair. Once repaired, they usually make pretty good guitars.

 As far as the bridge goes, if the repair you made makes it easier to use the guitar now then leave it BUT if you are going to go to the trouble or expense of a neck reset, I think the bridge should probably be replaced as well. You will probably end up with a better setup once it finished which should leave you with a guitar that can be used for many years to come.

BTW, if your interest is in reselling the guitar, I think it might be better to move on. Some guitars have their value in their utility rather than their price. They may not bring big money on the market but can be golden as a long term player. 

[Meredith DeVoe]

This guitar just fell into my life, I wasn't looking for another. I have a sweet Taylor and I guess I have a minimalist approach, I don't really want multiple guitars. But I thought this would be a nice beater, to let the teens my husband works with play, or at campfires, or perhaps to give lessons on. It's too banged up (cosmetically speaking) to be worth much, but that doesn't really bother me. 

If it does need a neck reset, which seems likely, it may not be worth it to me. So I am hoping I can adjust the neck back to where it needs to go.

But, we are renovating a house and all the tools are up there right now! Haha. 

[Meredith DeVoe]

Here is the conclusion I have come to. After adjusting the neck it is clear that will not solve all of the guitar's problems, there is enough bridge belly after all to warrant installing a Bridge Doctor. A new saddle and clean up the frets, reglue the heel, and hopefully it will be a nice banger for less than $100. And a new pickguard.

I'm very very grateful for the information and help I found here. I promise to post a YouTube video when I get the guitar going. Because the parts have to be hand carried by people coming in to Nigeria, it will be a few weeks. God bless you all!!