Extremely low output from undersaddle pickup

[Ian Pender]

A customer has brought me an ibanez acoustic electric with incredibly low output. Battery is fine, saddle is level, everything else seems fine. However, the guitar is, for some odd reason, currently strung up and setup to play with nickel wound .009s, which has me wondering, is it possible that the decreased string tension alone is responsible for the low output? What do you guys think?

God, it took me twenty minutes to type this paragraph on a tablet.

[Kerry Krishna]

 Easy to figure out. Take the light set off, and put on a set of 13 to 56. You will know right away.

[Peter Poyser]

I'm not an expert on Acoustic/Electrics so keep a big L Plate on my back as a warning. "L"!

Ask the customer to Think.  Thinking can helpful and so few people today appear to indulge in the practice.

Ask themselves, (1) what have they Done, Adjusted, Altered or Changed Out Recently? However seemingly innocent, have they done anything at all, just previous to the System Failure?

The next thing is (2) to Test the Battery and Check is that the Volume is up, and all Switches in Default Positions as some controls are discretely hidden in Some Guitars. It's too obvious, but such things do catch people out.

Then (3) whilst I was doing what Kerry suggested, on the sensibly rational basis that you try the simplest Solutions First. I would (4) take the opportunity to look carefully at the Saddle all over it and see if it has been worked on by an Amateur.

They often forget, whilst trying to Adjust the Action by sanding down Saddle Height themselves, that the Trueness of the Seating Links between the Saddle, Under Saddle Pickup and Bridge is a profoundly Critical Area where Success or Failure of the Whole System can lay. And Saddle Height or Size may be a factor in the Failure.

Examining (5) the Under Saddle Pick Up, observe and note whether it's a Piezo, Sonicore,  Sonicore SST or B Band Type, and in particular whether any of the Coating on a B Band Type has "Spots of Wear Through" that could Affect Output. Braided Under Saddle Pickups don't seem get this in quite the same way so the Type of Pickup and Spots of Wear, might be a clear indicator, pointing to the Actual Problem.

Connectors vary but perhaps you can (6) Test the All the Cables both between the Component Parts of the System and to include the  Output Jack Unit which has a Switch integral to it that Activates the Unit that needs Testing.  Then (7) Test the Under Saddle Pickup Output as Best you can, separate from the Pre Amplifier and Control Unit, to ascertain whether that is in fact, Entirely Working in the Correct Manner.

If the Output from the Under Saddle Pickup appears Satisfactory, then you are really looking at the fact that (8) the Pre Amplifier Unit may have gone Moribund and either require Repair, or far more likely, Complete Replacement Altogether. It's not (9) altogether uncommon, especially on some of the Older and Cheaper Systems, even when the Strings have not been changed, or when the Owner has not enacted any other type of change, for these System's to Simply Fail Electronically.

But (10) I would be going like a ferret down a rabbit hole, looking to see if it's a B Band Type of Under Saddle Pickup.

If it is, my hunch would be that's probably the Smoking Gun right there.

 

 

P

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Peter.

I understand your comment on the B-band UST. B-band has replaced (as a warranty claim) several systems in new instruments at the shop as they had a very unreliable batch sneak out of the factory to a few major manufacturers. If the guitar was shipped in 2009 or 2010, that factor is a probability.

The replacement (updated) systems had thicker UST's and a completely redesigned UST to pre-amp interface.

Have a great New Year, Peter :)

[Ian Pender]

Tried the strings, didn't fix a thing. Everything else checks out, string break angle is actuallu a touch on the sharp side, but you might be on to something with the B band. The transducer itself does seem a bit worn. I'll post a few pics of the potential culprit and then continue to troubleshoot.

Edit: I think I have another b band transducer like this lying around the shop somewhere. I'll plug that one in if I can find it, and we'll see if its the pickup, or the preamp. My bet is on the pickup though.

[Paul Verticchio]

Ian.

It's got the dreaded 1/4"/XLR output plate. You may want to resolder/relow all of the PCB solder joint contacts points on that unit. They're just awful.

You also may consider pulling the preamp and triple check its PCB solder joints. Also, use Deoxit to clean the UST interface connector on the preamp AND the contacts on the UST.

Best of luck :)

[Ian Pender]

I'll do all of that tomorrow.

Just curious. Do you think B Band would replace this system, even though its a few years old? I'm really beginning to suspect that the transducer is bad. It's thinner than most B Band transducers I have seen, and the solderless connector seems loose. 

[Paul Verticchio]

I believe that B-band warrants their products for 1 year, or so I was told by their rep at the time.

I can only suggest contacting them and explain that you run a repair shop and need their help.  The worse case model would be that your customer would have to pay for a new system. As a repairman, you may be eligible for reduced pricing. Your customer should be expected to pay around $150-$175 for the replacement system and your time & labor. For the 1 system we had that was out of warranty period, I believe we paid $90 (dealers cost) for the replacement.

If your customer is the original owner, he/she may wish to contact Ibanez to see if they know of this issue and have been providing free or deeply discounted replacements.

An alternate solution is installing an Artec system sold very inexpensively under the GFS brand from Guitar Fetish. You'll need a preamp & UST as B-band preamps aren't compatible with piezo UST's.

Keep us informed?

Again...best of luck.

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Ian.

Kerry & Peter both gave super responses.

What you're experiencing is something I see all the time. People stringing acoustics with ultra light electric strings and wondering where the sound (both acoustically and A/E) went. My first impression is that they REALLY don't care about GOOD tone. Nickle strings on an acoustic have a 'tonal' life span of about 5 minutes, even if the correct gauge of string is used.

My money is on the string gauge as being the culprit. Face it: those systems are DESIGNED to be used with at least .011 on up sets. When you deviate from that standard, the device is not required to perform as advertised....period.

Now, other than that, you also want to make sure (when it's strung with the proper gauge strings) that the string break angle is  applying sufficient pressure to drive the saddle down upon the UST.

My experience with Ibanez A/E's I've had to service (including a couple I bought as 'mules') is that the systems they use just aren't very good.....especially the ones with the 1/4" & XLR output ports.

If you're unsuccessful in convincing your customer to use appropriate strings, an alternative would be to suggest the use of a magnetic soundhole pickup. THAT is the appropriate technology for "electric guitar" strings.

I hope some of that helps. Best of luck with educating your customer on the care & feeding of the acoustic guitar :)

And, have a safe & HAPPY New Year:)