Parlor Guitar Questions and Possible Identification

[George Roberts]

The recent post about beautiful restorations inspired me to pull this one out.  I bought this guitar 15 or 20 years ago at an outdoor antique market.  It has been untouched since then.  It came in a rounded "coffin case".
It has Brazilian rosewood sides and back, but the sides and back are lined with a spruce veneer.   The rosewood apparently has shrunk more than the spruce because there are gaps in the rosewood back open to the spruce below.  Both sides have splits running along the side inlay.  The front and back of the peghead are missing parts of the ebony veneer.

There are no labels and no markings.  The tuners look to me to be 1890s vintage, and they are inlaid into the peghead.

It would be nice to have this professionally restored, but I'm afraid that the cost would be more than the guitar is worth.  I've already got too many projects on my bench to start in on this, but maybe in a couple months.  Suggestions how to handle the open cracks in the back?  Any ideas who made this, or where it was made?

Many thanks,

George

[George Roberts]

More pictures.

[George Roberts]

The peghead and neck are two pieces.

[George Roberts]

Hope this isn't too many pictures (again.)

[Frank Ford]

Fancy old timer, indeed.  Has the general look of those instruments that were imported from Markneukirchen (Germany) during the 19th Century.  Might be somewhat older than 1890s, and I think  you're correct about its resale potential vs. restoration cost, although it could be worth some dough to a hobbyist who'd like to get into a cool restoration project.

[George Roberts]

Frank, Thanks for your observations.  I guess that I probably qualify as the hobbyist to whom it was worth some dough.

[Steve Bettesworth]

Interesting guitar. IMO the body has the shape of a French romantic, the inlay and rosette would support this, but the bridge, if original is wrong. I would have expected it to be more moustache shaped. The head also looks wrong, it looks too flat and simple, a more ornate one would be expected. Could it have been altered? Have a look at http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/erg/lacotepics.htm to see if you agree with the French romantic idea. BTW in what part of the world was the guitar bought?

Steve

[George Roberts]

Thanks for the link, Steve.  Wonderful old guitars!  I bought this guitar in Allegan, Michigan from a dealer who told me he picked it up at an estate sale in Detroit.  The shape of the junction between the neck and the back of the peghead looked similar to some of the 19th c. Spanish guitars.  The peghead slots  are curved front to back like the way it was done on the Martins up until about 1920.  The bridge appears to be original to the guitar.

George

[Ned Knepp]

I seem to remember this guitar so maybe you posted pictures before but for what ever reason, I went looking at my books because the inlay around the sound hole seemed familiar. What I found is in the book; "Acoustic Guitars & Other Fretted Instruments" by George Gruhn and Walter Carter. On page 9,10 and 11 are pictures of an "Unlabeled, early 1800's" guitar that uses an inlay pattern that is pretty close to what is on your guitar . This guitar looks to be older than your's with a "Staufer" style head and a Rose flower inlay on the fingerboard extension. The bridge is a much older design more like a mustache bridge than the Pyramid  bridge on yours and the neck has a “snow cone” heel.

 

The ornamentation around the body doesn't include the oval shaped flowers on your guitar and there is a fan inlayed at the tail of the top opposite the fingerboard. The three rings on the sound hole are all herring bone of the same size as your outside ring. The inlay around the sound hole is exactly the same pattern you have with a blue/green abalone in the half circles and pink flowers. The fingerboard has no inlay fret markers.

The sides and back are B.  Rosewood but has no inlay running down the center of the sides as on your guitar. The pictures of the back are not large enough to determine the pattern around the edges and down the center of the back.

 

The side bar for the pictures states that it's "early 1800's [...] with some distinct Staufer Characteristics."  It cites the head stock in particular as being typical of "Staufer and other German makers".  The sidebar also mentions, "Floral inlay was available from German suppliers in precut form, and it appears on many guitars of this period." 

 

This brings up a point that is unclear to me. I don't know If Gruhn and Carter are referring only to the Rose inlay on the fingerboard or to the entire inlay on the guitar. Logically, it seem odd that only the Rose was precut but I haven't come up with a way to double check this.  

 

In any event, I think the inlay and overall design of your guitars probably indicates a German builder and I would guess that the overall quality it appear to have makes it a fairly high end instrument. I don't have time now to follow it up but I remember reading about the technique of using dissimilar liner wood as being something that was not used too extensively so it may be an avenue to explorer.

I could be completely washed up on all of this but I really do think this is a very nice example of an old guitar that MAY be closer to the mid 1800's than the beginning of the 1900's. It doesn’t have a “Staufer” headstock design but the volute design and the square slots feels “older” to me than early 20^th century.

 

OH, did I mention that in my "expert" opinion, it's probably junk and I'll give you 50 bucks and take it off of your hands?   

 

Now that I've written all of that, I usually default to removing the back to fix side cracks, mostly because I can't get my hands or arm inside of small guitars very well but I don't think I would be too quick in this case. Have you ever tried to pull the cracks together with light pressure?  

 The head stock overlays are an issue; particularly if you are like me and didn't have the foresight to purchase whole trees of it before it was embargoed.  My answer to this dilemma was to purchase an old bowl back mandolin with a B. Rosewood bowl. It’s not the best solution but it’s given me a small stock of nice wood for small patches. There are still some people that sell old stock but the cost… WOW. I got my old, falling apart mandolin for something like 30 bucks on Ebay but being patient and got some fairly nice spruce patch wood too.  If you time it right you might score one of the cool butterfly inlays used in a lot of the pick guards too!

 

Bridge has to be replaced, obviously but it appears to have pins very much like those in the books pictures. Don’t know how easy finding replacements for those will be but I’m guessing… Not.

 

Anyway, it’s a very cool guitar and may be worth more than you think.

 

[George Roberts]

Hey Ned,

Great eye.  I have a copy of the Gruhn - Carter book, and was shocked to see the picture on page 9.  The rosette looks almost identical.  I think the pearl part is identical, but with the three herringbone rings instead one, as you had mentioned. 

The back also seems to have the same problem mine has: the opening up of cracks in the grain.  The cracks in the back won't budge.  They would either have to be filled with small slivers of rosewood (and I love your idea for the rosewood source) or possibly with stick shellac, or even tinted epoxy.

The side splits seem to line up pretty well, and I have had more than my fair share of those lately.  Maybe it will get easier with repetition.

The bridge is split, but seems to be all there except for the pearl dot.  I remember my dad repairing "natural" splits, splits along the grain of the wood, in antique furniture.  He would inlay  "butterflies" or double ended dovetails across the split on a side where it wouldn't show.  In this case it would be 2 or 3 tiny butterflies inlaid into the bottom of the bridge, after it had been glued back together.

The facing of the front and back of the peghead has grain a lot like ebony, but the color looks browner than ebony.  Stew-Mac lists some 3/32 ebony veneer that would probably work.

Thanks again for your input.

[Ned Knepp]

I really like this guitar, George. The more I look at it, the more I notice fine little details. I hadn't noticed the ivory(?) strip below the bridge pins until tonight. Thats really cool. Looking at the pictures, I think the bridge is ebony which I believe would match the fingerboard. I've never though about butterflying the pieces together on a split bridge but I suppose it would work as long as the inserts were tight. Before you do all that work, you should make sure the bridge hasn't been warp or twisted out of shape too badly. 

I think you should humidify the guitar for a few weeks before you attempt to address the cracks in the back. this may help with the side cracks too. In any case it may generally tighten things up a bit before you need to address the cracks. I don't think I would fill any cracks left over with anything but B.Rosewood splints OR,If it were mine and the cracks closed up some, I might consider sealing any small cracks that couldn't be glued back together, with shellac applied to the edges of the crack with a very small brush. Of course they all need to be stabilized on the inside too. As long as they were not too much of an eyesore, this would preserve a bit of it's history and the shellac will protect the open wood grain while allowing for the possibility of a different fix later. 

I just took a last look at the pictures and remembered to mention that you MIGHT find a couple of the inlays you need for the edges of the top under the fingerboard if you need to pull the neck for a reset. Just an idea. 

[George Roberts]

Ned,

Thanks again for the great advice.  I am including some better pictures of the back cracks. On first observation they appear to be very irregular with jagged little side pieces.  When looked at closely, the jagged appearance is from the spruce below, which has been spread into separated annular rings.  The spruce is running straight, in line with the neck, and the B. rosewood is curving.  I don't think any amount of humidification or pressure is going to bring them into alignment again.  On the other hand, it may not be so hard to fit splints into the cracks since the rosewood cracks are relatively smooth.

Going through my stash, I found one bone pin with a pearl dot that is the right size.   Guess I'll have to make 2 more.

Great thought about the inlays under the fingerboard.  Sure hope I don't have to remove the fingerboard.  I would much rather make the inlays.

[George Roberts]

This is the picture I probably should have posted first, but the strings were in the way. 

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the spruce lining?  I've tried to look it up, and I can see that it was not uncommon in 18th and 19th c. guitars, but no explanation as to why.

Took the strings off last night, and have included a picture of them.  The 4th, 5th, and 6th strings look like silk and steel, and had knotted ends under the bridge pins.  There must be a steel core because they react to a magnet.  The 3rd string is wound steel, the 2nd is just steel, and they both have a winding of copper or brass instead of the usual ball.  The 1st was missing.

How long have silk and steel strings been around, anyway?  And when did they start using the ball ends instead of the winding?

Thanks, George