Question on classical guitar

[Andy]

Hi together,

I have questions about classic guitars.

Why do have all classic guitars the same body shape?
I would like to build one with the shape of a OM.
What do you think, could it be possible.
I'm thinking about a 12fret , slotted peghead and a very light A or X-bracing.
Has anyone of you tried such a mix?
My opinion is, it will work
Therefor I'm looking for nylonstrings with a ball - end.

Thanks for help

[Bob Webster]

Please believe me, Andy, when I say that you shouldn't take what I have to say personally.

If you've never built a classical guitar before, you're in absolutely no position to have a valid opinion about what will work. I say this with the conviction of someone who started out the same way and took so many wrong turns initially that I could write a "Don't try this!" book.

The classical guitar shape and overall dimensions took a sharp left turn in the 1850s with the guitars of Torres and, with very little significant deviation, the examples over the last ~160 years that have gotten out the shop door from some very important builders have not deviated very significantly from Torres' plantilla. Sure, Fleta's guitars were a bit more bulbous in the upper bout but, overall, variations to date have been focussed mainly on the exploration of size. Subtle changes to the shape, particularly of the lower bout, can have significant interaction with changes in bracing, for example.

I'll just pass on advice offered by two of America's greatest living luthiers, Jeff Elliott and Robert Ruck. Both would advise anyone starting to build classical guitars that they should find a guitar that really inspires them tonally and then work tirelessly to copy the guitar in as close a detail as possible. Further, don't stop with one but keep working with the design (which has already proven itself) until you can prove to yourself that you are getting the most you can out of the design.

After years of bouncing from one alien fan bracing to the next, I now focus my efforts on two designs, a Ruck 9-fan bracing on a Contreras or Hauser plantilla, and a straight copy of the '43 Hauser as presented in Jeff Ellliot's plan. Both designs are well proven and even work in my shop.

All that said, if you're the kind of guy that can't pass up the chance to explore, have at it and let us know how it goes. I'd just meekly advise to use a very standard classical bridge; low mass is meaningful.

Cheers,
Bob

[Penql]

"...took so many wrong turns initially that I could write a "Don't try this!" book."

and yet, if Torres had such a book, we might be venerating Kascha or other heresies ;-)

Why do they all have the same body shape? There are many similar mysteries in classical musical instruments, see violins and their bows for example. Baroque violin bows can be both beautiful and exquisitely expressive, but they aren't loud enough for orchestra - times changed, tastes changed, musicians needs changed and now we see mainly bows based on only two makers from the 18th century, Tourte and Peccate.

"...Therefor I'm looking for nylonstrings with a ball - end."

Surely you could make such a beast. If you fold it around the ball and wrap it, it will be kind of fat. Perhaps you could crimp a bead on to the end... could be an adventure!

A wise telescope maker advised me once - "write down your goals - revisit these often. Does your effort bring you closer to the goal? Don't take my word for it."

All that said, I agree with Bob when he says "keep working...until you can prove to yourself that you are getting the most you can"

[Bob Webster]

"Why do they all have the same body shape? There are many similar mysteries in classical musical instruments, see violins and their bows for example. "

One factor that moderates the vibration of the guitar and, of course, the whole violin family, is the interaction/coupling of top vibrations with the corresponding air modes in the body of the instrument. I've seen alot of speculation by academic "gurus" about the shape and distribution of air modes (which are 3D structures in contrast with top vibrational modes). Given that these are impossible to image with current technology, I'm amazed at the temerity.

However, for me, it's not too great a stretch to imagine that changing the shape of the guitar substantially would alter the shape and distribution of the air modes and ultimately, whether they and the corresponding top and back modes are juxtapositioned to interact (or not).

"if Torres had such a book, we might be venerating Kascha or other heresies ;-)"

Yeah, that gives me the shivers, too.

As for ball end nylon strings, doesn't Labella make just a set and label it as "Folk guitar strings"? I think they did in the ...ahem...'60s.

Lastly, I wouldn't want to squelch the creative spirit or dampen anyone's enthusiasm for exploration. It's what makes so many of us tick and, after all, it's the journey that counts.

Cheers,
Bob