Such A Deal.....

[Hesh Breakstone]

Frequently we see folks who have either just purchased an old or not-so-old guitar from a yard sale or often worse yet... ebay.

When they come into the shop they are frequently excited and keen to tell the story of how they found or "won" the instrument for peanuts.  Sometimes it's much more than peanuts with one client recently paying $2,300.00 for a 30's archtop that likely needs another thousand spent on it so that it's value may be $1,800.00 when all is said and done.

This places us in the unwelcome position of telling them, after an evaluation of the instrument, that it's a wall hanger or "project guitar."  If we get involved there are associated costs in so much as we are in business and also have associated costs as well.

It's often a sad state of affairs once they are informed, gently.... that the cost of repairs might be X and the value of the instrument might be X minus 1/2 of X.... even with the completed repairs...

On those seemingly rare occasions when someone is keen to attempt the work on their own making this a project guitar what can follow are efforts to have us talk them through it, no matter how long a project this may be.... while our focus has to be on our paying clients.  We help where we can but it's had me thinking for a long while now since this keeps happening over and over again that perhaps someone should put together a structured check-list for folks not savvy in purchasing instruments sight-unseen.  Even then there is also the idea of misrepresentation and likely no way around this.

Of the collectors that I know they appreciate reputable sources, brick and mortar businesses that are established, may offer a guarantee, and have decent reputations.  But these places, like any brick and mortar business also have overhead and associated costs to operate.  So the great deals are often not found here.

Some of the collectors that I know will purchase off ebay sight-unseen and even when they do they are often dissatisfied with what the UPS guy/person brings....

I'm wondering how many other repair shops see this kind of thing these days, folks excited about the deal that they perceive to have received only to be informed once a pro looks at the instrument that they just got ripped off.

As such how do you folks handle these situations?  

Thanks!

[Len Biglin]

I would just like to add a caution to repairers , when working on these instruments always get payment or a deposit before you start , the customer's euphoria can wear off after a few weeks and you are left with a guitar worth less than your repairs .

[Robbie Collins]

Why so few vintage guitars on eBay? Here are my thoughts:

Parts guitars, undisclosed problems, and Squiers with Fender decals puts even the real McCoys under a cloud of suspicion. Then there is ExNihilo and Bruce Bartlett making exact '59 Les Pauls over on the mylespaul forum. I'm a fan of these guys, but it makes people think impeccable cloning is more widespread than it is.

Consumers are predictable when they're unsure if prices have reached rock bottom after a bubble.  They interpret their anxiety at the possibility of paying an above market price as risk. Whatever they determine to be the probable price, they discount it according to the amount of uncertainly they feel about the true price. Makes sense - if they pay too much it will be years before they see appreciation - if ever. Of course, not many guitars change hands under these circumstances and market chaos ensues. Doesn't help that the vintage guitar market is small so, in these circumstances, comps are hard to come by. I suspect that appraisals for resale tend to err on the low side for the same reasons.

Consequently,  I suspect than an individual holding primo vintage guitars isn't going to move them in this market, especially on eBay. They know that the supply is very small, the demand is very large, and the prices offered not commensurate with the mismatch in supply and demand. Investors are in it for the long term.  Some guitars were no doubt bought when the market was high and their owners waiting for another price bubble. So, I suspect that a legit vintage guitar is only offered on FleaBay at a legit price when someone needs braces for their child or a new roof. Of course, there are dealers, collectors, and investors that float the occasional trial balloon to see which way the wind blows.

eBay's fees and policies aren't helping.  Their business plan seems to be to take as much value from the seller as possible on every transaction.  Taking 9% of the final sale price on top of $50 or $60 in fees is just monopolistic usury and makes it difficult to make money. You'd have to ripoff a grandmother's of her deceased husband's guitar to be able to make money after paying fees to eBay and PayPal.  eBay has become a commodity market of drop-shippers and the associated transaction costs too high for the collectible market.

On top of that, they have instituted a de facto "the customer is always right" policy. You can thoroughly describe every feature and flaw and put up a hundred photos, but if the buyer lies and says there is an undocumented flaw eBay will force you to take it back. All disputes are decided in the buyers favor. This might work for a new guitar....

Happened to me. I sold an '84 Fullerton '62 Strat Reissue in mint condition and the buyer cried foul.  After I received the guitar back and refunding his money, the dumb guy sent me an apologetic email telling me his wife had vetoed the transaction - "too many guitars." A generous return policy certainly helps alleviate pre-purchase anxiety but, in the resolution of a dispute, consumer decision making should be under as much scrutiny as seller documentation. Did they study the photos? Was the case opened because they saw another guitar they'd rather have? If the seller did their good faith duty and the buyer didn't then the buyer should be made to keep the guitar.

Besides, who wants to sell a mint '57 Mary Kay Strat to someone who might return it with a small chip or blemish and for which you're unlikely to be compensated?

I'm guessing brick and mortar stores do better at getting paid the actual value of a vintage guitar, especially if they have a solid reputation.

[Richard Bales]

It's not just with old instruments that this occurs.  An acquaintance purchased a new mandolin online that was beautiful to look at with lots of MOP inlays and such.  He was excited that he scored such a bargain.  When he brought it up to pitch he saw the top was sinking and brought it to me.  There was absolutely no internal bracing!  I had to tell him that it was wall art, not a playable instrument.