Tele lost mojo after neck tilted .

[Len Biglin]

Hi Guys , I have a repeat customer who is an awesome , dynamic player of rock and country . His tele has a bigsby and roller bridge . In order to get a lower action while the bridge was bottomed out , I tilted the neck a little and was then able to adjust the bridge as req'd. The customer was happy but has commented that the guitar lost a slight edge and "ring" . I checked that he wasnt talking about lower action reducing dynamics but he says it just died a bit . I also recall this happening before with a tele . Has anyone seen this happen ? Thanks

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Len.

Was the bridge 'bottomed out' before or after the neck was tilted? Was the roller bridge an addition or was it there before the work was done?

What is the post adjustment action and what gauge of strings does he use? What were the pre-adjustment action measurements?

Did you use a shim that fills the entire neck pocket or did you simply use the tilt adjustment (assuming it had one)?

Did the customer 'play in' his strings?

Thx :)

P

[Len Biglin]

Thanks Paul , the action was about 1/8" across before and about 1/16" after , the roller bridge was there throughout , and was bottomed out before the neck was tilted using a narrow wooden shim , this player is objective and i dont think its the action at play , but perhaps the bottomed out bridge gave better authority than when raised up . I think he uses 11 to 48 strings and tunes Eb . But also the narrow shim may reduce the integrity of neck/body joint ?

[Paul Verticchio]

Rusty touched on some important points. Thanks, man :)

It's been my personal experience that lowering the action (in this case by 50%) most always sucks some tone out of an instrument.* 

I also agree that if you raised the bridge after adjusting, that may be the culprit.

If you could post a pic of the face of this instrument, some other clues may reveal themselves.I'm especially interested in the type of bridge on the instrument. The stock Fender style bridges they use on Bigsby loaded Tele's are truly one of the worse designs ever assigned to an instrument. I refer to the bridge that adjusts with 2 allen head screws and is free floating in (what Fender calls) thimbles. This also applies to Jaguar's, Jazzmasters & Mustangs. There is an aftermarket bridge for Bigsby equipped Tele's that looks like a roller bridge, but it's not. (an aftermarket Mustang bridge).

However, I bet if you do a full neck cavity shim (Dane E. describes the "how to" in his book), it will help. I thought it was insignificant for years until I bit the bullet and made a full sized shim. Let me tell you, it's not only a great idea but, in my world, mandatory for bolt-on necked instruments.  Any gap between the pocket & the neck seriously decouples the neck.

One more thing, and this proves that we ALL learn something new every day.....

I just did a shattered headstock repair on a USA made Tele (a strap lock [Schaller] failed and the headstock shattered on its grain lines in a fan shape. Simple fix..glue, clamp & cleanup...but I digress).

When re-assembling the guitar (made in '98) the holes in the body were drilled so the threads of the neck attachment screws in the body, were also threaded. [note: as I recall, Fender didn't do this with their 'golden era' instruments] I've seen those often but decided to use a recently recommended suggestion to enlarge the holes just enough to allow the screw to freely pass through them and ONLY thread into the neck.

I've been the sole tech on this instrument for over 6 years, so I knew it well.  The result was a dramatic increase in sustain and low/mid response. I simply improved the coupling of the neck to body joint by allowing the neck screws to pull harder on the neck. It was amazing and is now common new step when working on bolt-on necks.

Hope some of that info helps or at least gives you a few ideas to try.

Best regards,

P :)

* Most younger players (under 45-50) don't realize that their 50's, 60's & '70's electric guitar heroes used very light strings with what would today be considered 'high' action. That's the ONLY way guys like Roy Buchanan could do a 3 step bend on a Tele with a 7.5" FB radius.

This is also especially true with acoustic Bluegrass players. So many try for 1/16" action at the 12th fret and they wonder why their mega-busk acoustics sound nothing like their idols' guitars. Well, that's because the "legends" had 1/4" action at the 12th fret and that allowed the strings to ring unobstructed and the player could really dig in and PULL the sound from the instrument.

This observation also supports my stand that 95% of a player's tone originates in their hands.

[Russell Vance]

Hi Len,

Did you adjust the pickup heights to match the new string path? 

Did you check the strings weren't choking with the lower action - if they are touching trailing frets due to the geometry changing they are losing energy and tone (not to mention introducing some unrelated intervals into the mix - which can sour up a guitar tone instantly).

Also a distant third, distance of the strings from the scratch plate (especially the bakelite ones) changes the tone a bit (or a lot if you remove the plate altogether).  Highly unlikely as only dogs and people born before Marshalls were invented can hear the difference.

Rusty.

[Murray MacLeod]

I made up a jig many years ago to solve this very problem in telecasters.

Instead of making a tapered shim, I remove the D string  tuner, and mount the guitar flat on the bench with a M5 threaded rod through the hole. The rod is fixed to the bench with  wingnuts on either side of the headstock, also protective nylon washers, and a locknut underneath the lower wingnut.. The height of the headstock is adjusted until the heel is at the exact angle necessary to create the required action . The calculations are much the same as for any neck reset, and you do need to remember to add the extra distance on the lower adjusting nut to allow for the amount to be removed from the heel.

Holding the headstock firmly down on the threaded rod, the heel is then passed back and forth over a sheet of 100 grit affixed to the bench with spray adhesive. In a few minutes, the heel is abraded dead flat, and ready to re-attach at the new improved angle. 

I am saying "bench" but my set up is a self contained jig with its own baseplate ... for a one off, however  it would be simple enough to drill a 5mm hole in the bench to contain  the threaded rod. 

[Mike Kolb]

Sounds like an interesting jig, Murray.... any chance of some pictures or a diagram? 

[Murray MacLeod]

It's years since I did a neck with this, Mike,  but I'll look the jig out this weekend and take a couple of pics. I have an old tele neck lying around somewhere which will suffice for demo purposes

[Len Biglin]

Thanks so much guys , I don't have the guitar with me any more , Rusty I think I would have adjusted the pickups properly , and I just guessed at the action measurement but it was not scrubbing out and this guy prefers a highish action . I'm thinking its the narrow shim at play here and I will make a full length maple shim when I see the guitar again , I will let you all know what happens . Murray thanks for your great gig idea , I guess if I glued a full length shim to the neck and then used the jig I could avoid messing the lacquer at back ?

[Murray MacLeod]

Len, a full length parallel shim could be made, but  there was no need for a shim on the guitars I have done. The amount needing to be removed is so small that it hardly impinges on the step between the back of the heel and the neck  profile , which is what ...  .100" ? It would need to be a pretty drastic change of angle to require a glued on shim.

What I do (did) was use narrow temporary shims at the end of the pocket on the body just to verify in real time that my calculations regarding the neck angle were correct,(with the guitar strung up to pitch) and then sand away whatever that height was from the back of the heel, tapering to zero at the front.

As  I said above, you need to remember to lower the supporting wingnut by exactly this height before you sand, otherwise you will sand an insufficient angle.  

I just touched up the exposed sanded half round at the back of the heel with brushed lacquer ... no big deal. 

[Len Biglin]

Thanks Murray , I also look forward to a pic or 2 of the jig Len

[Murray MacLeod]

I'll put up a couple of pics  either tomorrow or Sunday, but I will say that if I were to do the same job again, on a bona-fide Fender,  I would do it the way that Paul outlined above ...ie by making a  full size shim to fit the sole of the pocket, tapering to zero at the mouth, and gluing it in place.

For an economical quick and easy fix on a Pacific Rim import however, the sanding jig works fine.

[Andrew]

In addition to the great suggestions youve already received, I think its possible that the bridge coupled to the body more effectively when it was bottomed out than when raised to accompany the new neck angle. Perhaps make a tidy little riser that will fit beneath the bridge and allow you to tighten it down and maintain the new bridge height. I imagine Id want to try to make it out of either wood of the same type as the body or maybe the same metal as the bridge to get close to the same mojo as before., but of course it would be easy to try with some other wood types as well which might look better without putting some kind of a finish on it. Speaking of finish, if you were to try this be aware that such a riser would likely leave a noticeable imprint.