E-335 re-finish.

[Dave Yelverton]

Help! I've been given a Heritage E-335 Cherry Red with a badly marked back. It's down to the wood, so the only option has been to strip the back, carefully sand it down (it's a laminate) and re-finish.
I'm having a major problem matching the colour, nor am I sure about the type of finish used. Examining scrapings, it could be thinned pigment, but I can't rule out straight toner. The red toner I can get hold of tends to finish with a tendency to orange,which is fine for sunbursts, but the finish is actually quite a deep red with a pinkish tinge. If it's a thinned pigment finish I can get it matched at a local paint shop. Otherwise I'm in the dark and would appreciate the benefit of your experience

[William F.Eden]

Dave do you have the book from Stu Mac called [Guitar finishing Step-by step] ? In that book from page 146 it tells you how to do the 335 reds as well as some of the different reds If you don't have it I would think If you are going to be trying to match makers coulors it would be a good invesment. If not I could mybe send you a copy of some of the pages if i had your e-mail address Bill."""""""""""

[Russell Vance]

Reranch.com Heritage/cherry red schedule is for the underlying maple to be dyed direct with red analine dye . and then shot with cherry red laquer shaders. That's their take on this and I suspect the Stewmac schedule is similar. My own opinion on this one (and this is opinion -I have never shot this schedule) is that there is a light white pigmented wash coat in this mix somewhere give a subtle opaque look - very much like the milky washcoats on the blond teles (which I have done a lot of). Not much help I know but that's all I got. R.

[Dave Yelverton]

Jim

Here's the URL for the toner supplier. They provide a lot of other good stuff as well: http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/

One problem is that the toner is not a concentrate They recommend a max of 40% toner. I went to 50% and it still took 7 good coats to achieve the intensity I needed. The other is postage. They charge £15 for a carrier regardless of amount so it makes sense to order in a good supply provided you are going to do more than one job.
The other source is: http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/
Steve's a good guy and he'll help you where he can. He's got some of the metallic finishes for Fender, but unfortunately all his stuff is in aerosols. Still he's really useful for a one-off.
Moan time! I think you'll agree with me JIm that we're pretty badly served in UK compared to the States. Half my time in a one off job is spent sourcing materials and more often than not I have to resort to StewMac and LMII with all the attendant postage and customs duties, although of course you can't get flammable stuff by air. So come on, StewMac and LMII. It's long past time you opened European branches!

Anyway, here's the finished result. The lighting is different from the earlier photos, but I did in fact manage to get an exact match.

Bill, I have got Dan Erlewine's book and very useful it has been so far, but thanks for the offer.

Russell, there was no evidence from scrapings that the dye was directly on the wood, In fact, there was a golden coat which may or may not have been opaqued. I'm with you Russell in thinking that it was, as it gave a nice candy feel to the finish, whilst emphasizing the figure. Some cherry reds can be too intense and I think this avoided the hard appearance this finish sometimes has. If anything, it's very subtly opaqued and I got this with a coat of matt prior to the gloos coats.

Apologies for being so wordy and many thanks to everyone who responded.with helpful advice. That's another problem sorted and another lesson learned!

[Russell Vance]

A picture is worth a thousand word - that is a great looking job Dave, and thanks for sharing the knowledge - I'm thinking that, as you say, the use of a shader rather than a direct stain on wood (for starters) contributes to the subtlety of the finish ...great stuff again Dave. Rusty.

[William F.Eden]

Well Dave you did a beautiful job on it anyway after all that effert the customer should be proud of his new guiar.May you have as good luck in the future.Bill.""""""

[Dave Yelverton]

Bill

My ego says " Thanks for the massage"!

Regards

Dave Y