I've been looking around for a set of plans for a 12 fret martin style dreadnought. Have any of you seen these for sale anywhere or have a set?
I have an order for one and only an outline tracing and side widths.
My main concern is the placement of the X brace. But a set of plans would be nice.

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I don't know of any plans but I own a Martin D18 VMS that''s a 12th fret model. I'm fairly sure it has a long scale length. I've never tried to measure a guitar with reproduction in mind but I'd be willing try to get some measurements for you if you tell me what you want.

Ned, Thats most generous of you. My main concern is the placement of the X brace. I would think the distance from the bridge to where the brace crosses would be the same as a 14 fret. But with the longer body, I'm not sure.
If you could measure the distance from the front of the bridge to the back edge of the soundhole. Then (on the inside) from the back edge of the soundhole to the front of the brace crossing point. Those two measurements would be all I need. I greatly appreciate your offer. Thanks, David

I have made three 12-fret dreads (and am just finishing the 4th one), and have sort of generated my own pattern. I also own a Collings DS-1, which provides a sanity checks on my design. I came up with the dimension you mentioned as follows:
(1)) The scale is 25.4", so the neck meets the body 12.7" from the nut.
(2) For a 19-fret guitar the length of the fretboard should be a little more than 17.4" (where the 20th fret would be placed, if it were present). It is 13/32" from the edge of the 19th fret to the end of the fretboard on the Collings.
(3) The edge of the sound hole should be 3/32" (just under an 1/8") from the end of the fretboard, i.e., it is very close to 17.5" from the nut to the edge of the sound hole.
(4) A standard sound hole on a 12-fret dread is 4", so the back of the sound hole is slightly more than 21.5" from the nut.
(5) Therefore the front edge of the saddle (in the center of a biased saddle) should be close to 25.4" - 21.5" = 3.9" (depending on the lenth between the 19th fret and the end of the fretboard). This distance measures just a hair under 4" (perhaps 3.98") on the Collings
(6) I use Martin's measurement for forward shifted bracing, i.e. The x-intersection is 1" behind the sound hole. As I recall, modern bracing is 1.75" - 2" behind the sound hole. If you want "pre war" sound, move the bracing forward, but if you want strength (and modern sound) move the bracing back.

I have had a few people ask me for my pattern after they stumbled upon my web page while looking for 12-fred dreadnought patterns. Many years ago I was a draftsman; if there is significant interest, I would consider drawing up my pattern ... From your comments, it seems like this info is enough for you to create your own pattern.

Gary, Thanks for all the measurements. The separate segments should help me in that I usially push and pull things a little. They will be put to good use. Thanks again, David
Well, David, it looks like I'm a day late and a dollar short but my measurements are fairly close to what Gary posted.
I don't know how much accuracy you need so I tried to measure to the closest 64th.

Bridge face to sound hole distance is 3 49/64 inches.
Sound hole to X brace is pretty close to 1 38/64 (19/32 ) inches give or take a 64th.
My nut to the bottom of the sound hole distance is just a bit shorter than Gary's at 21 3/8 inches.
Scale on mine is long too. (matches my 25 11/32 fret scale ruler) .

While I was at it, I measured the distance from the bridge face to the edge of the body on each side of the fret board. I did it this because I wasn't sure if the 12th fret falls exactly on the edge. I hadn't realized just how much longer this distance is on a 12th fret guitar than on a 14th fret model. It's something like 1 to 1 1/2 inches longer than my other dred body guitars. Wow!

Bridge face to edge, bass side of the finger board is 12 1/2 inches.
Bridge face to edge, treble side of the finger board is 12 7/16 inches.

I'm guessing this is a production error and it probably doesn't make any difference but I found it interesting that the bass side is a tad longer.

The guitar has scalloped bracing. It's bright with out over doing it and has pretty good note definition. Over all the tone is very good with good volume and decent balance being just a bit heaver on bass as so many people want in a martin. It's actually a pretty good finger style guitar and that' how I often use it but it really rings with a pick. My other main guitar is a Bourgeios Ricky Skaggs sig. model which tops the Martin in all categories yet I find that I play the martin almost as much. It's a very sweet guitar.

It looks to me like Gary has given you pretty much what you need but I also see that there is a bit of a difference between our measurements so if you want more of my measurements just let me know.

Ned thanks for getting back to me. Neither late or short. Right on time. I'm glad to have the variables. It keeps me from thinking I have to be someone else. Nice to know everything isn't cookie cutter made. This one will be Adirondack/Madagascar with slotted peghead. ( Gary, great minds think alike). Actually it was the customers choice, not mine. Thanks so much for taking time to share. Both you and Gary have been very helpful.
Hope I can return the favor sometime. David
Slotted head stock is probably a pain to make but I love it. To me, it removes visual "weight" from the neck and just looks right. My Martin is slotted and that's one of the reasons that I have it.

As far as returning the favor, don't mention it. I had a good time going over my guitar and comparing my numbers to Gary's. I learned a lot that I didn't know about my guitar as it did this so I may actually be ahead in the game. It's interesting that my Martin isn't really any smaller than my other guitars but the "short" neck and the rounder shoulders makes me think it is.



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