Epiphone PR5E/VS

[Lee Gendvilas]

I now have an Epiphone PR5E/VS in to initially tighten the endpin pickup jack. I noticed the cracks in the bridge pin holes and the bellying behind the bridge. After taking tension off of the strings and letting it set for a couple of days, the bellying has become nearly flat. I checked the braces to see if any were loose, all seemed tight, but forgot to get my small pallet blade in to check. Frets need leveling/crowning, neck adjustment, new nut.

The focus of my assessment, besides resoldering the wires to the end pin jack and tightening the jack, is to replace the bridge with a new one (rosewood or ebony), replace the bridge plate with maple. The bridge plate is nearly 2 inches wide. Would it help the bellying to make a wider bridge plate? If so, about how much wider could I go?

Thanks in advance for your replys!

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[Russell Vance]

HI Lee,

The usual suspects appear busy and may front up after my musings:   but in the case of this guitar a JLD Bridge Doctor is probably appropriate to fix the pronounced belly which will likely reappear once the guitar is strung up to pitch - a new bridge plate may help a bit but the problem is way past just that.  Replacing the bridge with a flat unit may also help as well.  

It's a cost effective solution with this level of guitar unless you need the practice of pulling out the old plate and so on.  

Rusty.

[Lee Gendvilas]

Hi Rusty,

I've installed the Bridge Doctor in 2 12 strings and both are staying flat as can be expected. So, Bridge Doctor goes in this one. Also, you're right, I was kinda hoping for the practice since the plate is pretty easy to access, but I've got a bunch of other Epi's I can get practice on.

Once I get the bridge off, any suggestions on installing the new flat bridge?

I really appreciate you taking your time to reply. Until I retire from teaching elementary music, this is a part-time hobby and I've learned so much from you and everybody here on Frets.

[Russell Vance]

Hi Lee,

it the belly has flattened out as you mention without the strings you may be able to just glue on a replacement flat bridge which will help stiffen up the area a bit. 

I sometimes lightly machine or scrape a flat surface (for solid tops) to clean up the under-bridge footprint and give the new bridge a good solid flat surface to glue onto.  Otherwize clamp pressure will sort out some small whoop de doos. 

R.

[Lee Gendvilas]

Thanks again! Bridge removal and replacement underway.

Lee G.

[Lee Gendvilas]

The bridge is off but it came off much easier than expected and the pic tells everything. Since this is a plywood instrument what would be the best way to approach preparing the area for the new bridge?

[Ned Knepp]

I agree with Rusty. That's a lot of belly and a larger bridge plate might help but a Bridge Doctor would probably do the most good. I know from personal experience that they work very well. What I HAVEN"T done is put one in a guitar with a pickup. I don't know why it would make any difference to an undersaddle pickup but it would probably be in the way of something like a K&K system. 

[Lee Gendvilas]

Hi Ned,

Also, thank-you for taking your time to reply. I've also learned a lot from your posts. So, new bridge and Bridge Doctor. I'll let you know if there are any problems with the Bridge Doctor and pickup.

[Paul Breen]

You have some clean up to do!

Glue down the loose chips that the bridge won't cover first. Can you salvage the torn out Spruce from the back of the bridge? If not, you'll have to patch some wood in where it's missing from the top. Get some glue worked into the split in the top. If your using Titebond, you can water it down a bit to thin it. Compressed air can help you work it into the damage, clamp flat.

Don't worry about the glue mess quite yet. Clamp the bridge back where it goes and score around it carefully through the finish with an Exacto knife. Putting a few bridge pins in will help you locate the bridge, then clamp.

When that's done, clean off the finish and glue up to the scored line. This will make your bridge inset into the finish, give you wood to wood contact and help hold it into position when you glue it up. Scrape and sand but try not to go to deeply into the Spruce. You don't need 100% clean wood to wood for a good bond, so it's OK if some small areas of glue remain.

This fine tooth saw blade really helps bust up the old finish.

A small sharp chisel is a must for cleaning up to the scored line. I mostly use it like a scraper but will also flip it to get under the finish as necessary. Make some small wood sanding blocks and use them with sticky back sandpaper

This instrument is an Epiphone FT-30 Caballero that was originally fitted with a plastic bridge and I upgraded it to a glued down wood bridge. Pretty easy scrape and clean compared to what you have on your hands. Just take your time and work carefully.

[Lee Gendvilas]

Hi Paul and thanks for replying! As for salvaging the wood on the bridge, I tried heating the bridge once it was off the guitar to see if the glue/lacquer would melt. I took it to 240 and let it set there awhile but the glue/lacquer didn't soften. Should I try going higher in temperature? I was also thinking of using vinager to get the wood off of the glue.

When I was taking the bridge off, it felt hot when touched and when I got my spatula in it came off really easy. Was this bridge ready to come off anyway? What temperature do you recommend when taking off bridges?

I was considering using hide glue, but the more I'm thinking about it I believe titebond would be the better choice (I'm thinking about contamination). Your thoughts?

Thank-you again for taking your time in helping me work through this.

[Paul Breen]

Lee, I would do a few glue experiments with some samples. Let a bit of glue sit in both hot water and also a strong solvent like Acetone or Lacquer thinner. If neither of those soften or dissolve the Asian mystery glue then you'll likely have to remove it mechanically, scrape, sand. Vinegar won't help much if it fails the hot water test. If either of those seem to work, put a small patch of sponge over the wood to be salvaged and keep dosing with hot water (with some White vinegar in it) or solvent until you can get a razor blade worked under the wood bits and get them released.

If you are planning to make a new bridge from scratch, you'll want to be careful to keep the original in good enough shape to use as a template and duplicate it's outline. Otherwise, you could throw the whole thing in a pot of hot water (if hot water works) to remove the wood bits. Whatever bridge is to be used, will be the one to clamp down and score the outline into the guitar's top.

I use an Aluminum cauls and heat them to 300-350 for bridge removal. If the bridge has a finish on it, you're pushing your luck at 350, I have bubbled bridge finishes this way before. Having a light bulb inside of the guitar, under the bridge can help speed thing up too. Use a bit water to help lubricate palette knives. If you add White vinegar, it can help dissolve some glues but make sure your palette knives are Stainless Steel or the vinegar will react with the Iron in the steel and leave bad mineral stains.

I suspect the bridge was originally glued directly to the finish, came off and someone re-glued it. The way the finish has been so crudely removed in the center of the bridge foot print and gobbed on glue makes me think this could be the case. You could be fighting CA with mystery stuff on top. Acetone can dissolve CA but it takes some time.

Use Tirebond, it's better for compromised/ contaminated glue joints. I have done a few cheap plywood guitars with ripped off bridges and damaged tops using epoxy too and wouldn't rule that out.

The bridge plate is cheap 3-ply (Luan?) plywood and I'm sure contributed to the bridge splitting. I would overlay it with some Maple, cut with the grain at a 15 or 20 degree angle to North /South.

I don't know what this guitar costs new but with the other repairs you mentioned, this is going to take some time to get turned around. This is a good time to cipher up your involvement and have a discussion with the instruments owner.