Martin D25K "aging" and neck angle

[Rob Mercure]

Folks:

First off this is first post - I want to say that I love the orginal Frets page and feel that this forum is a great second offering from Mr. Ford.

I've got a 1979 Martin D25K - essentially a D18 with Koa sides and back- with the square unadjustable truss rod. In 2003 I had a very good - factory authorized - luthier/repairman reset the neck angle as it had lifted peghead up as Martins do after 15-20 years (I repair mucial electronics and and he and I worked for the same large chain of music stores so I was honored to watch him do it) which made my honey play as I expected. But last year sometime while I was ill and not playing for a while the "neck angle" seems to have changed again - but I feel this is too soon. When I examined the instrument closely though the problem didn't seem to be as much neck angle as the bridge bellying up a bit whild the soundhole area depressed a bit - playing felt exactly like the original neck problem. I really can't figure out what's going on with the instrument as all of the braces seem tight - it's almost like the table "softened" and that area.

Any suggestions as to repair - especially ones that are possible through the soundhole. I've actuall removed and reglued a guitar top before many years ago but I really have trouble working on this instrument since I'm so close to it but my finances are also bad now to farm out the work

Rob

[Jeffrey L. Suits]

I wonder where this urban guitar legend, "A JLD instead of a neck reset", came from? JLDs do what they do, very well; changing the neck angle is outside that scope.

[Rob Mercure]

Ned,

After looking at the screw again I'd describe is at a "panelling screw" (my terminology - guess I could actually research it ) much like the screws that are used in mobile homes to attach the pressed board panelling. But this is really more discussion than the fasterners are worth - but I'll agree that they could use something a bit more "elegant" - perhaps something with a fancy head that would preclude the whole sinking and covering with a "pearl" dot (if that "dot" ever saw the inside of a mollusc I'm an armadillo!).

Since my energy is a little better today I took about 1/2 hour to work the guitar over and here's my impressions about the sound: It sound really good, quite playable and much like the guitar used to and if I have any "complaint" it is that the guitar sound more like being new and less "broken in" - very 'Martin." For most folks this is probably desirable but I've found most Martins - especially the rosewood bodies - too unbalanced with boomy bass and accentuated treble and missing mid-range. This is why I fell in love with the D-25K with it's Koa back and sides which was more balanced overall for a dreadnought. When my Guild got stolen (coincidentally also a "D 25" - but this being an all mahogany instrument including the table - one of the early ones with the flat back) I really didn't like the thicker Martin neck (mine is when Martin swore that they would never install an adjustable truss rod as their necks "didn't warp (hah!)) - the Guild neck, while quite tapered, was actually thinner at the nut than my 1960 Strat's neck. But the sound, I just couldn't get the sound out of my mind and so I bought the Martin, One thing that helped was that the music store - Pied Piper in Huntington, WV - couldn't get rid of it as their primary Martin customer base was bluegrass musicians and these guys hated it as it "didn't sound like a Martin" with the more balanced response. So, after this long tale, the sound doctor seems to have affected the response to somewhat eliminate the mid range. Again, not terribly, but the guitar isn't quite "normal" for my 1979 make D-25K (I qualify this as I've played a couple of other first issue D-25Ks and each one was quite distinct -as Martin started making Koa instruments again they played around some before "standardizing" the sound).

As to leaving it: I dunno, other than the sound issue I'm conservative and generally like my instruments to be as "stock" as I can (but I modify my amps to hell - vintage ones easily restored) - you really wouldn't beleive how many years it took me to adopt the capo as part of my kit considering how dependant I am on it now and I still haven't mastered the slide sufficiently to use one often (might be because I like a really heavy brass slide on my little finger and I really don't have "stout" hands).

Hope you're still awake now !
Rob

[Ned Knepp]

Rob,
Call the screw anything you like. It does it job and does it well, what ever its called.

I understand being picky about the sound of your martin. I have a mahogany D-18 vintage model with the slotted headstock and 12 fret neck. It's not your typical "Bluegrass" Martin, having just a small bit too much bass and not quit enough mid but it's a nice, comfortable fingerstyle guitar. By the way, I use a capo all the time. I play a lot with piano and sometimes its the fastest way to make their keys playable. Besides, I haven't heard an acoustic guitar yet that didn't sweet sound when capoed at the 5th fret.

I like to keep my higher quality instruments as original as possible but I also want them to be playable. When I have to modify one, I take solace in the fact that there isn't an original Stradivarius violin left in the world. They have all been repaired and had bits and pieces replaces and modified over the years until it is impossible to say any of them are original. I read an article by a violin expert that pointed out that for all the hoopla over them, we really don't know what these instruments sounded like when they were original. We only know that they sound good now. Personally, I'll take playability over originality any day.

As for removing the Bridge Doctor from your guitar, I have to ask you; How do you intend to keep the bridge from rotating again if you remove it ? ( Please don't tell me a neck reset because it is string tension, not neck angle that causes the top to bulge and the bridge to rotate.)

Ned

[Rob Mercure]

Good question! I guess I'm hoping to be able to solicit the input from a more experienced repairman - such as the feller who did the reset for me - and perhaps find out that there is something that I've overlooked. Mebbe there might be some possibility of adding just a bit of exquisitively targetted bracing that would cure the issue. Since I've been sick with this liver funk I really don't think as clearly as I normally do and I'm also assuming that there is something subtle that I've overlooked that I might discover once I've gone through chemo (which was to start yesterday but since I've got too much iron in my liver they want to "bleed" me first ). I dunno - might wind up with the BD there until the guitar is passed on the another generation of musicians.

While I agree with keeping instruments as stock as possible I also subscribe to the ideology that tools are to be used and not admired! My Martin is my primary performance axe and I really don't have a backup acoustic. But while I do a more traditional gig when totally "acoustic" - no amplification - on stage I wind up playing with a bunch of hand drummers and my stage sound is more like a hollow body electric using the Fishman Rare Earth II soundhole pickup so when I break a string, etc., I can temporarily substitute the '60 Strat. My primary amp is a '67 Vibrolux Reverb and I've modified it for some tailored distorton and channel switching and such but I could return the amp to stock in a couple of hours. Again the idea being to have the most usable tool with the least modification.

Back to the Martin: As it was in continuous use when I had the original neck issue, and I really wasn't aware of the neck reset option, I wound up cutting down the bridge in front of the saddle a bit to lower the saddle. While I didn't take off that much rosewood the gut who did the reset talked me into replacing the bridge when the neck was done so the bridge with the "doctor" hole in isn't original - and this bridge was a Stew-Mac premade which had already split between the pin holes. So if I can fix the rocking without the "doc" I'll probably replace the bridge either with one I've made myself or maybe reinstall the one that came with the guitar as I really don't think that my wood removal in front of the saddle is really that extreme once you've got the bridge in hand to examine.

Oh, sorry to be so "screwy" but among all the other things I've done was to take 9 month of 8 hour day machinist training under the old Man Power program in the early 1970s and if dear departed Claude C. - my instructor - ever caught me misdescribing a screw, or anything else, I'd wind up having to stay late and clean up all the machines!

Hope your having a great weekend.

Rob