Newbie

[geoff]

G'day,

just thought i would intro myself, say g'day, and i look forward to contributing, and mostly learning here!

 

I am a born tinkerer, my wife calls me TIM the toolman sometimes, just becase i cant leave things how they are suppose to be.

 

i have recently been drawn to guitar repairs, well because i play guitar, i like guitars, and i was given an acoustic guitar that a friend didn't use anymore, it has a bulging sound board behind the bridge, i have played it about as much as i am going to like that, and started dissmantling it, with the thought, i could learn from it, and maybe end up with a guitar that might play a little better than it does at the moment.

Anyhow, this guitar is a cheapo construction, it has a dowled on neck,of which i found out the hard way, but in the process i have learned how to remove frets, make a makeshift steamer, and found out that there are more neck joints than a bolt on or a dove tail.

 

I was in the process of looking for ways to fix this cheapo guitar, looking at new necks, looking at how i could re-attach this neck, when i came accross another guitar, a washburn electric acoustic, with a snapped off neck, anyway long story short, i bought it, very cheaply, it the hope i could repair the neck, and have myself a guitar i could use when i play out.

 

i will attach a photo, i dont actually have the guitar as yet, but was hoping for some constructive help as to the direction i should take in fixing this type of break.

 

cheers

Geoff

 

[Ned Knepp]

I saw a cross grain break like this repaired with two scarf joint cuts and a segment graphed into the neck between the head and heel. It was a very involved and exacting repair with the neck completely disassembled, sectioned, glued up, reshaped, reassembled and refinished. I wouldn't try it on this inexpensive of a guitar. It would be easier and probably cheaper to just replace the neck.

[geoff]

i saw this repair.
looks similar to my break.

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~fishbake/broken2/broke2.htm

i am definitely going to try glueing the break to start, then i will tackle the removal of some material off the back of the neck and headstock, and try a backstrap support type repair. and if this ends in tears i will remove and replace the neck.

would anyone know for sure how this neck is connected to the body?, i know it isn't bolted, would it be a dove tail joint, or onn this quality guitar maybe a glued and doweled joint like the other project i am trying on the abilene flat top.

cheers
Geoff

[Tim Mace]

Why not check w/Washburn for the finer details? They may even supply you w/ a new neck(unlikely) but they should if they are any kind of customer svc oriented co.(also unlikely) or scour the hood for a busted Washburn w/ a good neck.Once more I suggest DIY neckjob.Not repair existing.................making a neck is a rewarding task when successful!

[Ned Knepp]

If you really want to try it that's a fairly decent representation of the process. On the one I wrote of earlier, the fingerboard and truss rod were removed, making it much easier to cut the angles. I don't know what your wood working skill level is but you should recognize that fitting this correctly, keeping the neck straight and at the correct length makes this a pretty complex repair. . It's extremely important that you get the fit very close. Don't depend on glue to fill gap. You don't want any gaps showing up when you are shaping the neck.

Tim has a good idea in contacting Washburn. They may not respond but then again, what have you got to lose?

Ned

[geoff]

hi ned/tim,
i sent an email off to washburn yesterday, they told me they dont make or sell replacment necks for these guitars, and as these are made off shore and in a few different places they aren't able to tell me what neck joint construction is used, quality control at its best i would say!!!!

i am still considering glueing this, not to be defient, not that i am thinking i know better, because believe me i know i dont, but on slipping the head back on, it fits tight up against the fretboard and about 1 third the way around the neck as well, but then the gap opens up, once i glue this, i was thinking of then removeing the wood where the gap is, but because of the tight fit at the fret board, the alignment of the neck is good, so hopefully my wood working skills will suffice. but if all goes bad and i find i cant get a result out of this, i will do like tim sugest's and replace the neck, win win, in doing that, i will remove the fret board so as to see the neck joint a bit clearer.

cheers
geoff

[Tim Mace]

g'luck...be sure and show us! If I had a guitar Co.I'd know how they were put together!
Not at all surprised W'burn does not.

[Ned Knepp]

The whole "made in a couple of different places so we don't know...." bit says a lot.

Maybe you can glue it back together then remove some of the neck on each side of the break at an angle, you may get better coverage of the joint and more surface area to glue to. It's careful work to get a good fit but it should be doable with patience. Since it's your guitar there shouldn't be much time pressure.

One more thing, remember that epoxy on the fingerboard may complicate removing the finger board in one piece later should you need to do so.

Ned

[geoff]

i ned,
this is the course of action i was thinking of trying,
so should i use some hide glue for the fingerboard area?

i was thinking of making a mould of the back of the neck, so as to be able to clamp it better, what type of material would i need to get to produce this mould, i have seen on the net someone using some sort of plastic, i was looking at builders filler type materials as well??

cheers
geoff

[Ned Knepp]

Geoff,
I've used plaster in a plastic bag to make one off molds like this. It's a bit of trouble getting the bag around the shape without leaving creases and you will want to mount it on wood if you are going to use it as a clamping caul. Also, Plaster gets hot as it cures so take care to not let too much heat build up. I found that the trick is to not use too much plaster. You need enough to make a stable mold and no more. You can also remove the mold before the plaster completely cures but it may distort a bit if you take of off too soon. Oh yeah, I learned to hard way to make sure you actually can remove the mold without breaking it. It's easy to press an edge too far around a shape and end up not being able to get it off easily.

I would use hot hide glue for the whole thing but I have experience using it. I like the way it draws tighter as it dries. It can be a bit daunting working on something like this if you haven't used it before because the work time is very short. I would heat the joint before applying the glue and have everything ready to clamp up as quickly as possible.

I've heard that fish glue works well but at room temp and has a longer work time. I haven't tried it nor do I even know where to get it. It's just something I read somewhere.

You could use titebond. I've used it before and the neck works but I wasn't happy with the turnout. It seems to me that the joint still springs a bit even if it hasn't actually come apart...yet.

Ned

[geoff]

Hi Ned,
thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated.

as for the hot hide glue, i may just give it a go. i have had a couple of dummy runs putting it together for glueing, i believe if i heat the joint like you sugested it will give me a little more time to work with?

i was only going to use epoxy because it was easy,

so withh the hide glue, if i just hold the joint together by hand first then apply some clamps and strap, or should i clamp and strap straight away?

also there is a little of the truss rod showing at the break site, what is recommended to put on it to ensure glue doesn't stick to it???

cheers
geoff

[Grahame Myers]

For making the mould, I'd use this: http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Specialt...
StuMac used to have it too, but I can't find it any more on their site.
If I have to do a repair like this where the trussrod could get glue on it, I apply vaseline on the exposed areas of the trussrod, no glue will stick to that. Good luck with the repair, it's an ugly one: As has already been said, the break is perpendicular to the grain, and that's always bad news....

Grahame

[Ned Knepp]

Vaseline is brilliant, Grahame!

I've tried placing teflon tape but it's hard to keep it in place. Vaseline makes a great mold release but I would never have though about it in this context. I think in terms of keeping oil as far from wood as possible but this is brilliant.

I haven't tried the Friendly plastic. I have a huge tub of plaster and don't need it all that often. I'm also waiting for the price to come down. I've read about how handy it is and I will, sooner or later, break down and get some.

Ned