Yamaha FG-260 and FG-12-300 neck joint question

[John Yungbluth]

Pleased to present for your consideration. . . . . . . . .

I have a early 70's, Yamaha FG-260 12 string in my collection that is over due for a neck reset.

I've done 2 Yamaha Red Label resets from the late 60's, a FG-210 and another model 12 string about 4 years ago.  Both came off easy.  Pulled the 15th fret, it took 4 holes to hit the pocket going straight down,  but came out easy with some steam.  Unfortunately I never took any reference pictures. I use a home made a neck removal jig similar to Frank Fords style that has worked like a dream for years.

But the 70's FG-260 I have today is hitting solid every time I drill. The FB is loose all the way to the front edge using low heat and a separation tool.  The 15th is 1/2 inch back from the front edge. Starting on the high E side of the FB as a reference, I've drilled at:

7, 12, 16*, 22, 34, 39, 44*, 51 and 55 mm

I put steam into the first 4 holes for about 8 minutes and no movement, no steam coming out along the heel/body joint or inside the body.  Came back the next day added another a few new holes, and went about 8-10 minutes moving from one hole to the next.  Drilled the last 3 in between some of the previous holes.  Went back to steam again for 8-10 minutes.  Same as before, no steam coming out except from under the FB. This is where I FUBARED up the finish along the sides of the FB.

I just drilled * these 2 a second time at a back angle toward the sound hole.  Didn't feel any "drop" into the neck pocket opening.  Will try steam again this evening when I have a block of time. 

Any practical hands on insight would be great.

I have a second Yamaha FG-12-300 in need of a reset  also.  It was to fall in line right after this one, so any insight there would be appreciated.

I didn't come up with any posts in the neck re-set gallery.

[Paul Breen]

Sounds like it's time to cut off the end of the finger board so you can see what your dealing with. It's likely that the neck pocket you can't find doesn't exist because the dovetail completely fills the mortise. I have run into this before but not on a 70's Yamaha. You can create more work for yourself by trying to save the finger board extension intact in this situation, just cut it off. It's much easier to patch the extension back on than fighting finish repairs and loosened neck block glue joints from over steaming, good luck.

[John Yungbluth]

Paul, thanks for the reply.

I've thought about that, but have never cut a finger board off at the 14th.  Do you cut a spacer to fill the gap, or use the saw blade as a spacer, glue down the extension and back fill it with a glue rosewood mixture?  Butt the two together with the fret in place and force fill the gaps at the edges? 

Where no saw has gone before in my hand.

Going to try steam again on the 2 holes I angled to the sound hole this weekend. But will start to hunt for information on cutting off the extension and any procedures for reattachment. 

Thanks again.

[Paul Breen]

I use an Exacto saw blade to cut the extension off when the need arises, makes about a .014" wide kerf. Exacto saws like that are available about anywhere that would carry Exacto stuff. These things cut surprisingly well and are cheap.

I just glue the extension back on with it pushed tight to the finger board, after the neck is back in. I fill what can be seen with matching finger board dust and hit it with CA. Sand it back flush and repeat until you have a nice looking repair. Finish up with a saw the correct kerf and clean up the fret slot.

If you have binding, it turns into a bit bigger job with more "depending on this and that's" to take into account.

[John Yungbluth]

Paul, thanks for your insights.

Neck is out.  Once the FB extension was off it was clear that the 15th fret was too deep behind the neck pocket for a vertical hole and I was aiming away from the pocket more with the 2 angled holes.

This was assembled with a hide glue, but it was a very tight fit.  Still took about 15 minutes to steam it out.

The back edge of the dovetail was 12mm back from the front edge of the body, and about 1mm of open space to the back edge of the pocket.  Down near the middle of the neck heel there is a cut away area for the truss rod that looks to be a good area to aim for when drilling 2 steam holes.

Left and right the pocket is about 11-12 mm in from the edge of the fingerboard.

Now to slowly work the angle back in place and re-mount the neck and FB extension.

[John Yungbluth]

A few more pictures.

[Paul Breen]

Be sure to carefully and thoroughly check all of the neck block's glue joints for compromise with a thin blade palette knife or the like. Connections to the top and back are especially important that they be well glued.

[John Yungbluth]

I've added pictures and measurements of this removal into the Re-Set Gallery.

[TKW]

I know this is a few months late, but I thought I'd add this for anyone who may do this in the future.  I reset the neck on my Yamaha FG260 and had this exact problem.  I found that removing the 15th fret dot maker and drilling under it to go right into the neck pocket.

Hope this helps someone...

[John Yungbluth]

Thanks for the picture and information.  Great information to put on file.

In a few weeks I'm going to tackle the FG-12-300 reset.  I'm going to start going under the 15th fret dot and see if it's a viable solution there too.

thanks again.