adding a glued bridge to a flat top

[stephen jeffery]

Hi i'm new so beware of naievity and poor spelling. I have an old worco parlor i would like to add a bridge to to replace the floater for intonation purposes and to possibly lower the action. the belly is fractionally sunk. I thought of a spanish type that wouldn't need drilling. what's involved please?

steve

perhaps the following photos help

[Ned Knepp]

Hi Stephen,
I'm glad I was of help. I completely understand about a "couch" guitar. I keep all of mine in cases but keep a baritone ukulele laying around. It drives my kids crazy ( which is half the point.)

The screw mount model is what you would want. I should warn you that I don't think it will do much to correct the depressed top. This device is designed to keep a fixed bridge from rotating. The correction it makes is to lower the back edge of a fixed bridge and raise/ support the front of the bridge. In you case the depression is probably more general than that. It may be that the tension of the strings will pull the top back into position but I don't think it's a sure bet. If the depression is too bad to keep it will probably need to be fixed first then maintained with the bridge doctor.

Actually, it sounds like you just about got things in shape. A bit of sand paper will help hold the bridge in place if the string tension isn't enough but I think I would replace the 100 grit with something much finer. Remember that the bridge vibrated and the 100 grit paper will wear on the top much faster than a bit of 220.

If the action is still a bit high, I doubt you will ever get the intonation just right. I'm sure you know this already but the guitar is not really braced for very heavy strings. In fact that may be part of what lead to your issues. I've seen some of these ladder braced parlors that just start folding up from the string tension. I think that extra light, silk and steel or even nylon may be called for to keep it playing. It could be that the neck is too narrow for stretchy nylons but you will have to decide. I guess the real thing is to have fun with it.

Ned

[stephen jeffery]

Thanks Ned. The depression on the top is only slight. I'm using 10 gauge bright bronze as the silk and steel irritate me. bit like rubber bands and a little coarse. I'll swap out the grit paper and see if that helps any. The action is now 3/32" and manageable. I've got the screw mount doc on order as well as the bridge and a bone saddle. I might try things out a little as an experiment. thanks again

steve

[stephen jeffery]

one reason for persevering with this guitar is that i had truss rod installed which makes getting this one worthwhile.

[stephen jeffery]

Hi Ned,
Have you tried fitting nylon to a solid headstock string post. I wouldn't have thought there was much room to wind on.

[Ned Knepp]

Yeah, Stephen, I have. It's not so neat as the large rollers but it will work as long as you run a loop above the string and below the string to help lock it in place. All my uke's use nylon on solid head posts. It works fine. They do stretch a LOT and it's easy to end up with a huge wad of string on the post if you start with to much slack. The good news is that you can always loosen the strings and start again. A string winder is practically a requirement. ( Either that or trick one of the kids into thinking it's "fun" to twist the keys for me. My kids are WAY beyond that.)

Between you and me, new nylon strings make me a bit crazy because they seem to stretch forever. I hate changing them because it seems like all I do for a week is tune. I do think it's kind of neat how they react when you loosen them up. The pitch goes down then starts going back up as the string "unstretches" but that's just the nerd in me.

Ned

[stephen jeffery]

ok. at the mo all is well and the tuning is stable - so i'll have fun with that until the spanish bridge and doctor arrives. then we'll be ready for a string change and i'll experiment some more. At least we can always go back to where we are now. I won't glue the spanish immediately. By the way, what's a readily available glue for bridges that can hairdryer off. I'm not so worried about the finish getting messed up.

steve

[Ned Knepp]

Actually, Stephen, if you are wanting the spanish bridge to work properly, you will need to find it's position as exactly as you can, mark that and remove the finish in that area before you glue the bridge into place. If you attach it to the finish, there's a pretty good chance that it will not stay there for too long.

Gluing down the spanish bridge and installing the bridge doc isn't going to be reversed too easily. The first requires that the finish be removed and the second requires a hole in the top of the guitar. I can be fixed BUT...... I might be best to consider it a one way street.

Glue? I use hot hide glue. Maybe not so easy in your position. I think Titebond (original formula) is used for this by some people. It's more elastic when dry than HHG but easier to work with.

Ned

[stephen jeffery]

by titebond do you mead superglue? what is wrong with standard woodglue? many thanks for the continuing input

[Ned Knepp]

Titebond is a brand of wood glue.
http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=1&ProdSel=Prod...

I wouldn't use super glue for a bridge. The URL I posted is the the information page for the original formula of Titebond. I think that the general consensus here is that the other formulas are less desirable than the original for instrument use. Generally speaking, flexibility in a glue joint is NOT desirable on this sort of thing and a lot of glues tend to keep too much when dried.

Ned

[stephen jeffery]

hi Ned,

I see titebond have an original woodglue and a liquid hide glue. which would you recommend?

[Ned Knepp]

Don't use the liquid hide glue, Stephen, It has additives to keep it liquid that seem to make it weaker as a glue. Hot hide glue is the only form that seems to hold well enough for the stresses involved but it may be overkill anyway.

Unless you are already set up to make and use it HHG is a lot of trouble for a single bridge. The original formula of Titebond will work just fine for your application. It will also allow you much longer working time and can be dispensed directly from the bottle. I don't think it makes as good a "sonic" bond since it doesn't dry as crystalline as HHG but it isn't too flexible when it dries either.

I have read about (and I think Frank may have some info on Frets.com about, ) Fish glue. What I've seen seems to indicate that it works as well as HHG but is already in liquid form, with a longer working time and a longer drying time. I haven't tried it and haven't talked to anyone directly that has either. I've got a jar of HHG granules that will last me for a while yet but I may get some to try when I get around to it.

Ned

[Jeffrey L. Suits]

I've installed many JLDs, and only recommend the screw mount.