Looking for a Luthier - Central Florida

[Ed Allen]

Hello - I am looking for someone that could reset the neck on my Gibson B-25-12N with confidence. It is approximately a 1967 model with a trapeze tailpiece.

Here are some details –
1. A local luthier told me the neck is being pulled up by the string tension, and the bridge is collapsing into the top under the string pressure, but I haven’t been able to accept the latter assessment. To me, using a straight edge the top looks fine. The projected line of the fingerboard intersects well below the top of the bridge so when the saddle is set for a playable action, there is so little downward pressure from the strings on the saddle (remember it has a tailpiece), that one of the bass strings slips out of the saddle slot while playing. With this condition the instrument can’t be used to perform.

2. The top has a crack in it along the treble side of the fingerboard extension which has been very crudely patched. However, the body, the heel block and the neck itself all seem to be sound. I’ve looked into the body with a mirror and inspection light and don’t see any cracks or gaps.

I know this is not a very valuable instrument, but I love the sound and size of it, and would like to get it back into playable shape. I’m really not at all concerned with cosmetics, finish, etc.

So if anyone knows a luthier that could readily handle this job please let me know. I've been to two luthiers already. The first said it's not worth the repair cost, but I didn't get an estimate. The second said "no thanks".

Thanks – Ed

[Ron Frazier]

Any Gibson is worth repairing!! Sounds like the repair persons you have talked to just didn't want to do the job or was not qualified to do it!

I like to work on junkers so if I screw up it I am not in too much trouble.

It is a lot of work hide a flaw in a hi gloss finish. I build new instruments and I can work with that but a spot is a lot of work especially in the crack of the neck.

I have had two nice instruments one a late model and one old sears but very good shape and I turned them down.

I know my limitations

Ron

[griff]

The crack along the treble side of the fingerboard tongue is sometimes caused by (and often diagnosed as) the pickguard shrinking over time, but not always: sometimes cold creep or some other environmental distress can cause the upper face brace to give and the neck under tension will pull into the sound hole. This type of problem happens very slowly, so it may appear everything is sound in the heel block area. You probably do need a neck reset, but the extent of the out of whack geometry could also be due to the loss of upper face support, and would have to be addressed first. Without having seen the instrument I doubt there is much trouble with the bridge. I can't believe two repair people have turned you away, it's an extensive repair but well worth it.

[Stuart Horsman]

It's been many years since I was last in touch with him, but there was a great repairman/builder named Paul Berger, in Apopka, FL.

[Tim Mace]

Is the bridge a floater or is it attached? As for the saddle...sounds like either you need a new one or have you tried to deepen the string slot? Are you using unison or octave string sets? Any pictures close up of the probs?
Have enough angle coming off to the tailpiece? Light gauge strings I hope .B-25's aren't very rigid as I remember.Meaning too much tension not a good idea.and you should tune down a step from standard for the sake of the construction.Especially if using unisons.

[Ed Allen]

hi guys and thanks for the ideas and questions.

tim - the bridge is attached, i think it is bolted to the top from underneath.
yes, it could use a new saddle, but the real problem is the string break angle over the bridge to the tailpiece is virtually zero.
i'm using light gauge standard octave sets on strings 3-6 with unisons for 1 & 2, and i keep it tuned a whole step down.
i generally keep a capo on the second fret to get standard pitch (EADGBE).
this picture shows the same type of instrument that i have. - ed

[Tim Mace]

Providing the action is acceptable you may be able to get a rigid tailpiece that doesn't swing up with string tension to create more bkwd angle unless the problem is strictly structural.I don't much like that tailpiece anyway.Wood or bone would really be cool!

[Ed Allen]

tim - an interesting idea. i play banjo too and the thought of having an adjustable tailpiece had occurred to me, but i can't think of any examples for guitar. rigid or adjustable, it would have to be pretty stout to withstand the tension of 12 strings.

do you know of any examples i should look at. if you're thinking of something custom made i'm afraid i would start out with a piece of angle iron (i'm not very elegant from a craftsmanship standpoint).

i do like your idea though. if the neck is solid and the top is sound, then that might just do the trick.

thanks, ed

[William F.Eden]

Ed I have never seen a B-25 with a tail piece befor. I have two of them from the late 50's and they don't have a tail piece. they just have the bridge and pins and are also bolted on bridges that is a Gibson trade mark. The only time I ever saw some thing like that is when the bridge starts to pull the top up so they just put a tail piece on instead of fixing the problem.Are you sure that the top is not going down? And also do you think some one has changed the bridge befor you got it ? They have a habit of having a week top at that point. Just my take on the subject. P.S when I spent my winters in Fl. there was a big Guitar store just south of the #4 over pass on98 the left hand side of the road going in to Lakeland around the Homedepot corner there I know that they did repairs then because they phoned me to see if I would do some for them while I was there.I hope this has been some help to you good luck Bill.""""""""

[Ed Allen]

bill - gibson did make this model with both tailpieces and with pin bridges too. the bridge and tailpiece are original unless someone also replaced the pin plate underneath the top (no pin holes there).

there is a slight rise (~1/16") in the top at the bridge position longitudinally, but transverse (side to side) the top is flat where the bridge sits.

i can see if anyone knows of the repair center in lakeland. that's less than an hour away. - ed

[Tim Mace]

What if?....if the strings pass thru a hole in the tailpiece...bypass the hole and come from under the bottom of TP
to try and create more down pressure for that string.believe me I don't know what I'm talkin' about.Have you tried a heavier gauge string/single for that particular string?

[Ned Knepp]

It seems to me that playing with the tailpiece or bridge ignores the root of the problem with the neck angle and that will only get worse. Is it worth fixing? I think that you must determine that. A B-25 isn't the end all in guitars but it's hardly a piece of junk either.

Ned

[Ed Allen]

So that brings me back to the original question - Does anyone recommend a luthier in central florida that could fix this guitar? I could ship it off to a big reputable shop (like gryphon!) only to find that it can be fixed for a mere $1K ( and pay return shipping), but i'd rather have someone local look at it, determine whether they can handle the job, and get an estimate without having to ship the instrument around the country. (Shipping it off would be Plan B.) - Ed