Refurbishing a fret board . .questions on the correct methods?

[Marc Vincent]

Hi there Folks

 

First post here, just a general observation when correcting old fret boards and some sharing of methodologies.

 

I recently saw an advert on Ebay for a level claiming to be perfectly flat for dressing those old fret boards, claiming 0.001 in inch accuracy in its length. The Ad stated that you simply taker the bow out of the fret board with the truss rod  until the fret board is flat? and then proceed to level all the frets using abrasive paper under the level. Now I can see this method used to level off a brand new fret board, but in all my time repairing fret boards I have never ever known a fret board to go back level  enough to warrant the  adjusting of the truss rod and proceed with what I think is a little heath robinson and basic. The neck of a guitar never ever bends perfectly, and can slightly twist, humidity, the natural nature of wood prevents this happening. I have a precision engineering company and thought this method a tad crude and basic for the people out there with expensive guitars , some antiques, taking this task on board only to find that they damage the truss rod, or that to their dismay, the guitar fret board flys off, which I have known to happen on a few ocassions with other luthiers, where age has taken its toll on the joints and glue.

My method, is to leave everything has is, with the relief in place and using a flexible but stiff piece of springy steel that will bend slightly and abrasive paper placed under this. This method follows the natural contours of the neck and frets and flattens off the tops perfectly and is a similar method you would use in engineering to smooth out a contoured surface. I am sure some of you use this method also, but how come people are selling flat levels that create a lot of unnecessary work in adjusting truss rods and the risk of damage when the job can be done more similar and precise!

 

Any thoughts on this folk or any other tips would be appreciated.

Regards

Mark . .

 

 

 

Favorite Guitars

 

Favino and Harmony Vintage 1260

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Highland]

I'd disagree with you on this Mark,

I like to have my necks setup with minimal relief and to me adjusting the truss rod is always the first step in fret dressing (unless it is a non adjustable rod)

If the truss rod can't get the neck to an approximation of straight with strings off then that neck needs repair before fret dressing.

A functional truss rod is vital, If you can't adjust it without the fretboard joint failing then that needs to be resolved.

[Marc Vincent]

Ok Jeff thanks!

I wanted to leave the next bit until I got a reply, so here goes>

So, in your wisdom, can a fret board go nearly flat to justify a 0.001 level been used,  its much easier and smarter to dress a curve relief with a something that fits the profile, something that flexes in one plane. After me doing this on my Harmony, I tested the points with a CNC machine probe, no truss rod adjustment, but a good quality spring steel was used . Following points along the curves in one plane I was able to check for accuracy and found the desired accuracy to be better than most new guitars I checked against and classic old ones. So my thoughts are is it really necessary, I think not personally from experience. The guitars I had access to are from an international artist with a massive collection that are played for a living, so if they make a living out of it and I have made mine more accurate than all the major makes, all the well played and set up guitars without adjusting the truss rod, then I see an positive alternative to the conventional manner of dressing the frets.

 

But every ones entitled to their opinion and I suppose its a matter of choice.  .personal preference :-)

 

But thanks anyway Jeff, I just curious if anyone else has tried this method . .?

[Jeff Highland]

I'll leave it to others to take this on, but fear of adjusting a truss rod is just accepting what someone has done to it previously.

[Marc Vincent]

I totally agree with you Jeff!"

I am no expert by the way, just a guy that can turn his hands to most things and get results one way or another!

Personally, I don't fear the truss rods, but generally just thought that fret dressing the tops the conventional way was over the top and unnecessary using a level edge when the neck is bent. .. What works for one person might not work for another and I am fortunate to have access to different types of spring steel to experiment with ..

I am all ears and hope to learn and share on this forum. .

Thanks for replying though ..

Marc. .

[STGuitarworks]

Hi Mark,

I use a 1" x 7" x .5" flat steel block with 180grit paper to level frets, with the fingerboard as flat as possible by truss rod adjustment.

That method was taught to me at the Summit School of guitar building and repair. The Godin guitar company used that method also at all of their 6 factories while I worked there (I am told the largest north american based guitar manufacturer).

I have leveled the frets on over 1400 guitars and basses using a flat block with sandpaper on it and the fingerboard as flat as possible via truss rod.

Mark, if you are finding that you damage truss rods when you adjust them or that the fingerboards are coming off.... well, I suppose its good you have found a way to avoid that!!

 

Cheers! 

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

I think I get your point, especially a 0.001" leveling edge is way overkill. But I only partially agree with your method.

First, I don't see the point in wanting to avoid adjusting the trussrod. No danger, no harm, no time. Just a basic set-up operation. If during a trussrod adjustement, a problem occurs, then it needed to be fixed anyway, cause a that weak fretboard is not a good sounding one I guess. A bad glue joint means high mobility (in vibrational meaning of the word), and for a fretboard that's not a good point.

Second but more important, the goal in fretboard or frets leveling is not only to get things align, but to sand high spots down to low spots in a playing situation. Here's an example, because my English is not good enough to explain my point in a theorical point of view :

- if a neck bends in a parabolic shape, your method is okay : it will level out the frets or the fingerboard. I some time use that precise method on minor problems. The only backdraw I see is that using a springy caul will lead to more material removal to achieve the same high spot removing, and that's a matter of concern.

- if a neck's got a more complex problem (for example the classic s-shaped due to near critical buckling load), you need to  use the usual string tension simulation gig + straight leveling caul.

 

I use both methods, but most of the time, I go for the second one, because in the workshop, you never know how the customer's guitar's neck will bend... and it only requires some minutes more to be sure of your result.... making twice the work because it wasn't enough the first time is sure a good way to loose time and money. Plus on some guitars, leveling with a tightened trussrod can correct improper back bow.

Last, but not least, out-of factory major brand high end guitars are not known by luthiers (well, not me at least) as references for the acuracy of the fret leveling. I believe you shouldn't take that as a reference.