Truss rod pushed down into the guitar neck

[Henry Ramsey]

Hello, I have a Oscar-schmidt (by washburn) OE30 SHB guitar with a stripped truss rod nut and the truss rod has somehow moved further into the neck whilst trying to use a tool to grab the stripped out nut.  

 

Anyone here have a clue as to why a truss rod would be able to move into the neck like this?  I think the stripped nut is not hard thing to fix but the rod seems to be more problematic.   Am I right will I have to have someone take the fretboard off to fix this issue?

 

I posted the best picture I could get of the nut in it's current position.  The black area by the nut is where it used to be.  It's moved about 1/2" into the rod cavity from where it should be.

[Henry Ramsey]

There would still be the hole that I used to remove the nut the first time so if it came to that I should be able to use that again with the screw extractor.

Of course you're correct that if it's up against the rod the extractor tool couldn't get into that hole the second time.  

Is there such a thing as a non-specialty die that would fit into a truss rod hole?  It would need to be no more than 3/8" wide (width of the truss rod hole) and have a long handle too.  StewMac's truss rescue kit has the correct die, but it's $250.  If I had that kind of money I'd buy a new guitar and experiment on this one though. *sigh!*  Does anyone make a competing tool?

I'd love to be sure the threads are sound before putting on a new nut.  Not to mention being sure the new nut bears against the proper support.  The rescue kit also has spacers for this purpose.  I'll have to hope they're ok. I made the order this morning and I'll get the new nut sometime early next week.

[Henry Ramsey]

Well, I tried cross-slotting it and though it worked at first I got to a point where the screwdriver wasn't able to exert enough force and the slot deformed binding the nut within the cavity. 

I was still able to remove it ok with the extractor since there was plenty of room to get the extractor too into.

One benefit of this exercise seems to have been the truss rod is now in what I think it it's proper position.  I can see the threads whereas I couldn't before.

Oh well, I have to wait until the new nuts arrive.  So much for experimenting.

I realise I'll need to lubricate the threads when I actually have the right nut.  What is the best lube that's easy to obtain?  I've seen mention of petroleum jelly?

[Tim Mace]

It'd be more challenging to remove the FB but at least you could see precisely what happened and it's probably not a very expensive axe...you could  put a new rod in and gain that feeling of you made it a better one.IMO as usual

[Henry Ramsey]

I look forward to attempting to remove the fingerboard like I look forward to having a root canal. ;-)

 

That said if I have to, then I will try it.   I have two nuts on order and they've been shipped.  I should get the early next week.   I got a fender bullet and a criss-cross type so I can see which one I like.

  They're either going to work or I've dumped another $14 into this repair to go along with the $18 last week for the nut tool that didn't work but I can't send back because I did use it, and the $13 for the screw extractor, drill bit and adjustable wrench I used to remove the nut.   This is getting costly.

[Ned Knepp]

Sorry Henry, I was under the impression that you were able to remove the truss rod. I don't know of any tap that would do the job in the neck except another nut which could be risky.

 

Ned

[Henry Ramsey]

I think it's OK.  The threads don't seem to be damaged so I can use a new nut without issue. 

As an experiment I tried criss-cross cutting the old nut so I could attempt using a flat blade screwdriver.  The nut deformed as I was trying to tighten it.  The metal couldn't handle the force of being pushed at by the blade.  I actually managed to get a little relief in the neck but the nut gave out before I could get enough to be useful.

The nut deformed and bound up becoming useless.

I removed it again with the screw extractor,  A side effect of this is that the rod moved again, this time toward the open end and I can now see the threads clearly.   They are in fine shape so with the correct nut to thread onto them I should be good to go.   I hope so.  I should get the replacement Monday or Tuesday since it was put in the mail today First Class.   I'm in Houston, StewMac is in Ohio so three working days should be about right.

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

It's weird that Oscar Schmidt tells you it's metric. Well if it worked on 10/32, you know what nut to use. Even if the diameter is very near, you can't mismatch a metric nut/shaft with an imperial shaft/nut, because the threads are different. The bullet nut should do the trick.

[Henry Ramsey]

I'm thinking they misunderstood my question or only answered part of it. 

The adjustment tool that came with the guitar is 4mm to turn it even though the rod is threaded 10-32 so they answered about that, but not the thread size.   I asked specifically what whether I could order it from the mfg and a specific size I should get if they don't have it.  I was told they no longer make nor sell it and refered to stewmac or allparts.com.  Stewmac and allparts have the same selection of truss nuts and only imperial sizes; no metric at all.

 

The Fender is 1/8" nut size. I just hope I can find a 1/8" adjustment tool for this.  I made the mistake of purchasing the nut and no tool to turn it with.  Arg!

I might just take it to guitar center or another shop and have them set it up properly once I get the new nut onto the rod.  

At least then if it strips out a second time it will be their dime to have it fixed.

[Paul Verticchio]

"I might just take it to guitar center or another shop and have them set it up properly once I get the new nut onto the rod."

LMAO.  That's the last place I'd go.

BTW: the 1/8" adjustment tool that is mystifying you is a 1/8" Allen or hex wrench.  About a buck apiece at ANY hardware store.

[Henry Ramsey]

Sure, I know I can get a 1/8" allen wrench, but using a 4mm allen wrench is what got me into this mess with the stripped nut to begin with.  Being a little too short it didn't quite go deep enough into the nut and as I tried to tighten the nut it stripped out from catching the edge of the nut instead of the whole thing.   I realise this now why it stripped, but I wish I'd figured it out beforehand.  And this was the tool that came with the guitar not one I got elsewhere.

The tools StewMac sells have ball ends which do a better job of gripping the nut, and rubber handles for a better grip.  Plus they're longer length so I don't have to bust my knuckles.

Since I might again risk damaging the nut I think I might take it *somewhere* to have it setup.

GC is the easiest shop since I must ride only two busses to get there vs three.   They're are also launching a service it seems and the guy I spoke with is now a certified tech for several guitar mfgs.

At least that means he *might* actually know what he's doing too.  Since I am winging it at best it'd likely be worth my while.

[Paul Verticchio]

Henry,

I guess that I'm just confused.  Everyone here is offering you very sound advice. You seem to be disregarding most of it and proceeding as you wish, which, as your right, has over-complicated what should have been a very simple and basic task: adjusting the truss rod.

You used the wrong hex wrench on the nut and stripped it.  That's operator error. It happens at one time (or more) to all of us.  Lesson learned: double check everything.  Sure, Oscar Schmidt (OS) should've supplied the correct tool but they didn't.  That's understandable when offering an instrument at a $150 (street) price point. BTW: it costs OS about $12.50 to manufacture that guitar.

You don't need to buy a complete set of adjustment tools from Stew-Mac.  Get a long handled "1/8" hex T-handle wrench" for a few bucks at your local hardware store.  That'll keep you from busting your knuck's AND WILL SOLVE YOUR ISSUE. Buy your tools as needed and in a few years you'll have most of what you need if you wish to work on your own instruments.

[Tim Mace]

I also outsource root canals.I assumed the Oscar was yours but good luck anyway!