Paint Analyzer?

[Robbie Collins]

I read the excellent Gord Miller (GM Vintage Restorations) interview on recreating authentic vintage finishes. He said he used a handheld paint color analyzer at a auto body shop to scan a Fender custom colors chart. The device then gave him a formula for mixing each color.

I suppose he could also scan a guitar directly for repair work.

I'm wondering if anyone has done the work and published the results or has used the device themselves.

Interview: http://www.300guitars.com/spotlight/spotlight-gord-miller-gm-vintag...

[Peter Poyser]

Ned!

Forgive me for not responding rather earlier.

Though I wonder if your intention is to deliberately provoke.

Happily, your thoughts above, won't take any time at all to easily dispense with.

 

 

A very old and dear friend, sadly no longer with us.

A Great Public Speaker , the Author of many Fine Books, a man in hot demand on every Continent throughout the World.

But especially beloved and heavily feted in America, particularly the Southern States, which he would often have to fly to for Civic Ceremonies and Honours to be bestowed upon him in Great Convocations. A Man Tremendously Admired by all Patriotic Americans, once told me this..

 

 

"When you encounter an individual that is Criticising Another, listen carefully, take heed, note well and mark everything they say.

For it is an Infallible Law of the Human Personality, that subconsciously, such people will always Criticise the Aspect in Others, that they Most Dislike, About Themselves."

 

 

This is a very valuable lesson, as it offers the observer a most deeply profound and perspicacious insight, into the innermost state of the personality, traits and idiosyncrasies of the Critic.

And above in your post, we see a Supreme Demonstration and the Full Evidence and Truth of his Point.

 

Long , Solid Text Book Blocks of negativism and criticism.

Not One Single One of Which, Has Anything Whatever At All To Do with the Topic Subject Matter of the Thread.

This is of course the very thing you have directly accused me of wavering from and emphasised thus. Quote Ned: "The threads NEED to stay on topic."

 

 

I'm reminded of a Parable that seem appropriate. 

"Stop judging, so that you won’t be judged, because the way that you judge others will be the way that you will be judged, and you will be evaluated by the standard with which you evaluate others.

Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when the beam is in your own eye?

You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

 

 

Frankly Ned, my Professional Analysis of the way you've Painted everything in your post above.

Is that true to form, once again, you have merely Painted Yourself into a Corner.

 

 

Your Own thoughts, words and writing such as they are, stand in Evidence Against You, and Directly Condemn You.

Two Wrongs do not Equal a Right. You really can't have this both ways.  You Cannot Effectively argue in favour of staying Strictly on Topic.

Whilst remaining in any way credible and believable, if you, relishing and enjoying the Character Assassination you are over indulging in, are Straying Completely Off Topic with Long Posts yourself, as you do so.

Perhaps a Career in Politics would have been an ideal match for this characteristic personality Blind Spot. (Two kinds of Government Chair correspond with the two kinds of Minister: one sort folds up instantly and the other sort goes Round and Round in Circles).

But irregardless, there's little earthly point in telling others they should do something, if in doing so, you yourself become a grand exemplifier of the very thing you are telling them not to do.

 

Can you see?  

Think this through and hopefully you will come to see the utter reasonableness of this pertinent point.

But there is another you should consider. It's an absolutely unassailable fact that the subject matter, you are complaining about being discussed, Submarine Technology was not first brought up by me at all. I simply responded, when another member wrote about it.

So you seem highly selective in your Candidates for Criticism, and this Fundamental Flaw, Inevitably and Irrevocably Weakens all your meandering subsequent points. It is clear you have an axe to grind, just as you have in the past, but with this additional Blind Spot so Apparent, the Wide Cracks in your Arguments show you have No Real Foundation, No Genuine Bottom.

 

 

Anyway.

The Subject Matter of the Thread.

Appeared to have already been Fully Covered in General.

The Conversation inducted by Rusty is no different to general small talk, enacted between Professionals and their Clients as Good Public Relations on every day of the week.

Furthermore, there is hardly anyone here who posts regularly, who has not at some time, when a Thread has run its course and is Effectively Answered, indulged in Generalised Off Topic Conversation and Humour, including, inconvenient as it might seem to be, You, Yourself.

 

 

You accuse me of name dropping by mentioning the Queen and Usain.

This accusation is Easily Proven to have No Validity in Fact, and here's the Evidence.

It's Truthful to say that if I do something, I like to try to do it the Best it Can be Done, or hopefully, Even Better if it's Possible. It's just a Way of Life.

I'm sure I'm not alone in this, and that a Great Many Musical Instrument Builders and Repairmen hereabouts have exactly the same Attitude and Approach to their Work, and that's certainly, what I admire most about them.

So if my real motivation was to name drop I would certainly want to make a good job of it, and name drop "The Queen" as openly and effectively as possible, in a way and in a place that everyone would notice the most.  In fact the ideal place would be to Start my post with that Fact.

However, the Truth and Reality of the situation was, that it was only when I reviewed the Movie regarding the Bespoke Candy Apple Red Paint for the American Entrepreneur Mr Fuchs, that I suddenly remembered that I had Worked on a Product for the Queen that used a Special Bespoke Colour especially created For Her Majesty. One Fact stimulated another Memory.

It was an Addendum,  a Complete Afterthought, and it came to my Memory just as I finished the post, so was the very last point of that post. So much for trying to name drop. Far from being irritated that you would accuse me of such a thing. I'm rather distressed to think that you would imagine that if it were my intention, the job I would make of it would be such an appallingly bad one. Simply a Memory, tagged to the end, rather than a Central Focus.

A number of the Companies I have been involved with and had "an interest" in over the years, have a Royal Warrant. Royal Warrants are granted to People or Companies who have regularly supplied goods or services for a minimum of five consecutive years to The Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh or The Prince of Wales. The Warrants are a mark of recognition that tradesmen are regular suppliers of goods and services to the Royal households. Strict regulations govern the warrant, which allows the grantee or company to use the Legend 'By Appointment' and display the Royal Coat of Arms on their Products, such as Stationery, Advertisements and other Printed Material, in his or her Premises and on Delivery Vehicles.

I certainly could have done a better job, with all I have at my disposal.

 

 

As for Usain.

If you are unable to see that him saying "Keep Up" to me, is self effacing and self deprecating humour, taken wholly at my own expense, as I can't possibly "Keep Up" with him. Then I would suggest you are lacking in humour, creative thought and mental vision.

How this would be a good way to name drop is entirely beyond me, it is not, just like the example above. It is humour, taken at my own personal expense. I am making a point, but laughing about my own physical inadequacies.

Once again, if name dropping were my real motivation, I surely would have gone about it a different way, and certainly done a completely better job altogether. 

By believing you are actually able to Determine Motivation, you have crossed a line into a very Grey Area, which is Fraught with Danger.

Vainly Attempting to besmirch me, Falsely Assuming You Know What I Think, Assuming, You Know What I Think of Others.

Skating on Thin Ice as you have, it's No Wonder, your Statements are so Very Easy to Sink Without Trace.

 

 

Finally Ned.

As you have made it abundantly clear in the past, that you neither enjoy my posts nor like what the twisting meanderings of your mind, tell your over active imagination, is me.

 

Why on earth do you read them?

Why not skip them and completely ignore them instead?

Are you Obsessively and Compulsively, Neurotically Driven to read them in case they somehow might be about You?

Or is it simply that as you have indicated in the past you neither agree with me about certain matters, but have been singularly unable to authoritatively sustain your arguments, and resenting that, search the posts relentlessly for some fault to find, as a False Pretext.

 

 

Ned.

If you set out to Throw Mud.

You are certainly Going to Get your Hands Dirty!

But Such Weak, Easily Disproven Points, Merely Spread the Mud, All Over Yourself!

 

 

I really expected a Better Class of Post.

 

Speaking of the need of an altogether Better Class.

If you are really interested in High End, Craftsman like Artisan Work?

I have a Pal who at times Sings and Plays Guitar, and at times Leads in Worship in one of the many Oxford Churches hereabouts, who I understand, has also made a few Records.

But the thing is, he is Really Brilliant, a True Craftsman and Artisan at Engraving Glassware. In fact he has a Royal Warrant, and recently Produced a Set of Glasses and Glassware Highly and Beautifully Decorated with Quite Wonderful Scenes of Animals, Wildlife and Nature.

Johnny Walker has donated Oak Presentation Boxes created from the Wood of Historic Casks, and a 100 year Old Bottle of Malt Whiskey to Compete the Presentation Set, to donate to Her Majesty The Queen and Prince Phillip. Furthermore, Johnny Walker were so deep impressed with the final result that they commissioned Two Complete Sets for themselves to be Archived as Historical Heirlooms for their Organisation.

 

 

Each Set of Glassware, complete with Wooden case and 100 Year Old Bottle of Whiskey are singly valued at £100,000. 

I notice that C.F. Martin recently produced their most expensive Museum Piece, adorned with Highly Ornate, Picture Inlay Work.

Valued by C. F. Martin at $50,000, it would be possible to buy two of these were they available, and still have an impressive amount left over.

 

All for the price of a Drink.

 

Looked at like that, they suddenly seem very good value for money!

 

Happy Easter! 

P

[Peter Poyser]

Robbie.

Today I had a drink with the chap in charge of handling all our Spectrophotometers.

I explained the matter that prompted your question and explained the reason that such Devices is of interest to some in this Field like Gord Miller, who would appear to have a Unique Selling Point, to his Marketing Strategy. He seemed to readily approve and clearly thought these Devices had a good application for that purpose, and were entirely relevant to it.

I asked him for sources of Further Information regarding the their use specifically for you, I discussed X-Rite and so on, and I explained that the information there was Product Based, and the Professional Training comes as Packages.

He understood that, however he then mentioned  that we have just gone over to BYK - Mac Spectrophotometers, and suggested there might be some relevant information that might be of interest and help there.

http://www.kohsieh.com.tw/PDF_Files/BYK-Gardner/03_Color/Metallic_C...

 

I had a look for you and found some Additional Information on their Site and some Movies that I trust will enlighten, inform and entertain. There's lots of Excellent Information here, but here's a little to help you make a start.

https://www.byk.com/en/support/instruments/videos.html

http://www.byk.com/en/support/instruments/technical-information/app...

http://www.byk.com/fileadmin/byk/support/instruments/technical_info...

 

 

Quite often, Changes in Technology occur in Industrial Settings not because there was anything wrong with the Previous Kit, the aim is quite often to establish a Uniform Group Standard across the whole of the associated Portfolio of Companies.

With the high degree of cooperation that occurs  across many Locations in various Countries, you can understand that if everyone uses the same Kit, talks the same Technical Language, all sorts of hiccups and the odd anomalies that could occur are thus helpfully avoided. 

The thing is, the timing of your Thread appears to have been extremely fortuitous, as we have all these perfectly good Spectrophotometers stashed away now, complete with additional Power Packs and Chargers, and all sorts of useful accessories  that extend their usefulness and flexibility that won't be used any more, and after a "quarantine period" to see if they are still needed, will probably, simply be disposed of.

I might not of even thought anything about this if it were not for your Thread, but it has certainly given me, some very interesting thoughts indeed.

So a Big Thank You!

 

 

 

I'd just like to make one other point, if I may?

Rusty, Paul and myself have all stated quite clearly, this level of equipment is not required  for the Standard Luthiers Workshop, and the various standard methods that are relevant have been mentioned earlier.

This is quite true, for a Workshop Spraying One Off Guitars in the usual manner, that are not likely to be rigorously compared directly to another sample.  What is generally looked for, is of course, simply a Good Paint Job. So there is no argument about this we all concur and are in general agreement.

It is Truth. However, it is not the Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth.

What do I actually mean by this?

 

 

Well, quite simply the fact that no two individuals, ever have eyesight that is precisely the same.

Everyone's eyes are slightly different, and we tend to see the same thing, ever so slightly differently as a result.

You may be surprised to learn, that over the years I have encountered some Colour Sprayers that are actually completely Colour Blind.

I could explain how they overcome this deficiency in practical ways, to perform their work perfectly competently, but will leave that aside,  merely focussing on the fact that I have learnt what to look for, as the giveaway signs, that they have a condition.

Far more common in my experience though, is people with Good Eyesight, Tested for Colour Blindness successfully, yet who with Certain Colours, close together in a particular section of the Spectrum, under Certain Circumstances and Types of Lighting have genuine difficulty in distinguishing between, two, quite different Colours.

In other words, it's very common indeed in my experience, and I know a great many Professional Sprayers in this Field, for almost every individual to have some part of the Colour Spectrum that can present them with specific difficulties, if the prevalent Lighting and Illumination Characteristics are such that determining between Colours is in an Area  where distinction is difficult, for their Individual Eyesight.

Such Determinations, which are successfully performed under Midday's Natural Daylight, can prove to be almost impossible for some people when the same thing is asked of them, in Artificial Light of a Completely Different Colour Temperature. Its skews their compass point of reference by Less than Ideal Illumination, resulting in them registering a different hue than is actually the case.

Major Clothing Stores are quite alert to this phenomenon, and any Good Retail Store will have Special Colour Temperature Tubes fitted to their In Store Lighting, to assist and enable their Customers to make more Accurate Determinations regarding the Shade of Colour of the Clothing they are selecting, to help make a sound choice.

These Retailers have been forced to go to this expense, simply because this problem I have described above is so very common, it's an everyday occurrence, and has meant Lots of Lost Sales, Full Refunds, and Returned Goods.

So the Tubes are a Good Investment for them. They are not in any way perfect, but they help greatly to minimise the problem to the Retailer and of course the inconvenience for the Customer.

We have Special Boxes fitted with Sophisticated Light Tubes, that allow for Five Different Types of Simulation of "Natural" and "Artificial" Light to Industry Standards for Checking this.

But none the less, the "Human Factor" in Colour Perception is so important, that despite all the High End Kit in the World, Manufacturers still have to give it Great Credence.

I mention this, because at the end of day, if you have done a Great Paint Job, and it seems Perfect to your eyes, but not your Clients.

This knowledge and genuinely truthful explanation, just might come in rather handy, to be aware of.

 

Happy Easter!

 

 

P

[Ned Knepp]

 I rest my case.