Satin finish maintenance and top crack repair

[Ron Moucka]

Again, my thanks to all who responded regarding my top crack on a Martin DX1. I was shocked by how much re-hydrating closed the crack. Had to have gone from an 1/8" down to less than 1/64". I was able to glue/clamp and cleat from the inside, and it doesn't look half bad. My next question is what is best for maintenance of a satin finish? I had a Martin Backpacker that someone had used Johnson's floor paste wax on. It had a nice soft feel to it, and seemed relatively well protected, but I don't think I want to go there. Any other suggestions on the cleaning, conditioning, and protection of a satin finish?

Thanks,

Ron

[FRANK]

just depends oil like the back packer and wax? or a satin lacquer?

[Ron Moucka]

Satin Lacquer, I would assume.

[Ray Hughes]

Wipe on satin urethane.

[Ned Knepp]

Lacquers and urethanes don't sound much like "maintenance" to me. Am I missing something?

Martin recommends a damp cloth for cleaning and their own brand of polish to maintain their finishes. I have an old can of Mothers Gold carnauba (automotive) wax that I use every once in a while but I generally just stick with the "damp cloth" routine and buff up my instruments if they need it. Carnauba wax is pretty hard and I don't want to build up a bunch of layers of it over the origninal finish so I'm not to quick to wax it and most of the time I only apply it where I see it's needed, like where my arm rest over the lower bout. There's not a lot of wear on the shoulders or around the end pin so I don't see a lot of reason to wax the whole thing every time.

I also learned that wiping an instrument down when you put it away goes a long way toward keeping the finish in good shape (cloth diapers are great for this). I don't have any satin finishes so I can't say how well this wax would work for your guitar but just keeping it clean does a lot.

Whatever you try, make sure it is silicon free. The can of wax I have is one that I purchased over 25 years ago so I can't say that a new can would be silicon free so check it out first. (provided, of course, that you are interested in trying it.) If I remember correctly, my can of wax was fairly expensive so it might be cheaper to just buy Martins polish and use it as directed.

Ned

[Ray Hughes]

Oh, pardon the brevity. What I meant to say was the instrument is finished with a wipe on urethane. I completely ignored the question...oops.

[Bob Webster]

Ned, do you think that Maguiar's No7 show car glazed would be safe on a satin poly finish? I use it as the last step before I hand my French polished guitars to clients. It's safe enough for shellac but I have no idea whether or not it would haze a poly finish. There's no abrasive in it, just cleaners and it does an outstanding job.

Bob

[Len Biglin]

Thanks for the tip Bob I think I'll try the No7.Len

[Ned Knepp]

Bob,
I can't say for sure since I haven't tested it. I use Mother's Gold Carnauba wax because it is what was on my shelf and haven't had any problems with it BUT I do test on a small area if I have any doubt about the finish.

A far as Maguiar's on poly is concerned, it seem to me that poly finishes are actually closer to what the wax was designed for then shellac. I would try it in a small area first but I don't think there much risk. I suppose the question would center on what they use as a "cleaner" in there formula so there may be good reason to be cautious but it's easy enough to test first.

I think the real issue of wax type coatings on satin finishes is that they are all designed to bring a "high" gloss to a finish which seem contraindicated in a satin finish. For this reason, I've never tried one on a satin finished instrument. Frankly, I'm not much of a fan of the satin look and this is one of the reasons. I also don't much like that areas of wear show up by becoming glossy. Because if this, I don't actually own any instruments with satin finishes so I don't know a lot about keeping one up.

The truth is that the only reason I responded to this thread is that it seemed to me that our Op seemed to be getting suggestions that appear to be more closely related to refinishing than maintenance and I got carried away talking about what I use which, in retrospect, may not apply to the question either.

Ned

[Cliff Morris]

The local go to guy for lutherie was using Turtle Wax on his the last time I was in his shop. I used it for years on my gloss finish Guild and she still looks new. Mothers Gold or Classic should be equally good as they have no abrasive in them. I used them a bit during a stint doing repar and restoration on some vintage instruments. If you need a slight bit of abrasive quality to get rid of hazing or oxidation dust a little corn starch on your polish cloth. This is an old auto detailers trick from the lacquer paint days. Costco sells inexpensive microfiber polishing cloths that work well and you can wash them if needed. I would think that any of this would be safe on a satin finish but might make it a bit more glossy. I don't have direct experience in that regard other than the back of my Strat neck which is starting to shine a bit from wear. My understanding is that the satin finishes are satin due to a flattening agent in the finish itself so it really shouldnt show more than a modest change in gloss due to buffing or polishing. Good advice to test on a small area first.

[Bob Webster]

Those yellow Costco microfiber cloths are outstanding. They're safe for French polish finishes and I use them all the time on anything but bare wood (boy, can they find the tiniest splinters!). As for the matte finish that was the original subject of the post, wouldn't Turtle Wax overwhelm the satin and gloss it up? As you advise, try it on a small area.

Bob

[Cliff Morris]

I think there is only so much gloss that can be had from the satin finishes. I have used all of the above mentioned waxes and polishes on my Strat and you can still see distinct areas where hand wear seems to have polished the surface to a bit more gloss but the over all surface appears less glossy than the maple fretboard which is full gloss. I suppose that any substance that was allowed to build up on the surface would change the gloss a bit. It might be interesting to wipe down the Strat with a cloth dampened with Dawn and water. Dawn is what is used to rescue oil soaked birds and critters because it's surfactants work well and are considered not harmful to the critters. Just to see if the gloss or surface feel changes any. I don't think it could cause a problem through the poly finishes Fender uses on their newer guitars. I suppose you could use Murphy's Oil Soap or Lemon oil or something similar if the water was a concern due to the previous cracks from the OP. RE the microfiber, I keep mine in a plastic food storage tub because they do tend to pick up any nasty little bits of trash floating around the shop. I also keep any that have been used to polish metal segregated because the smallest sliver of anything on one will wreak havoc on a nicely finished high gloss surface. Yikes!

[Ned Knepp]

As far as I know, the additives to the finish that make it satin, work by keeping the surface a bit rougher than their gloss finishes. Wear patterns are where the peaks are worn off, allowing more uniform reflection. I think wax would have much the same effect by filling the gaps between peaks. Maybe they don't gloss up the finish as much as wear because the peaks still emerge as the wax is buffed out but I think there is a chance that the result may not be acceptable to someone that really likes a satin finish so it should be tested first. I would also look carefully to make sure the "flat" isn't just haze from dried wax. The Satin finishes I have made repairs on tend to require a touch of steel wool to knock the shine off of the area I have worked upon and my feeling is that a satin finish is really not any easier to maintain, over the long run, than a gloss finish. (Just in case someone should think I am doing so, I do NOT recommend using steel wool as a maintenance item for flat/satin finishes. It "flats" the finish by removing finish and, in the long run, I think the instrument is better off with some glossy patches than patches with no finish at all.)

Costco has supplied me with many things that I didn't expect. I have found that my local Costco will give me the thin sheets of cardboard that are used to separate the paper products (TP, Towels) on the pallets. These are sized to the pallet and are made up of the gray paper used for shirt boxes and such, the cardboard with one smooth white finished side and the other left unfinished. I looked at them one day and thought "Wow, I could really use that." so I took a couple of them that I found loose in the stacks, with me to the checkout. I found that that my revelation wasn't so unique since some of the local school teacher had already established a precedent. The checker said I could have them but ask that I don't disassemble the stack to get them. Since then, I take any that are reasonably free of the stacks while I'm there for other things. ( A piece of string is good to keep them tied up.) I use it for templates and masking large areas or even just a clean surface to work on.

Ned