1958 Gretsch 6196 ..weird trussrod!!! ADDED PICS!

[David Connolly]

Hi Guys, as stated gotta 1958, 6196 cadillac green countryclub in for a setup.problem is the trussrod....whenever I tighten it,it actually increases the relief/bow in the neck.
When I loosen the rod the neck is almost straight with about .010"relief but this increases to about .020" whenever I tighten the rod.
The guitar sounds amazing and apart from the problem is in good condition .Never encountered this before...anybody got any ideas bout whats going on.

[David Connolly]

Just a follow up.....took some measurements with straightedges and feeler gauges....with the trussrod loose it has .008" of relief at the 7th fret....with the trussrod tightened it INCREASES to .014" at the 7th fret.....all measurements taken with strings off....any help most appreciated!!

[Ry Charters]

I'd try to backbow the neck by rigging up some clamps, and then apply a tension to see if you can encourage it to go the right way. ...delicately.
I have no idea what might cause this. The reason a rod bows up is that there's more mass above it than below, so it wants to "buckle" whichever was is easiest. If it wasn't a production guitar I'd think the rod was too shallow but that seems very unlikely.

[David Connolly]

Hi Ry,
Thanks for the reply.Your suggested was also the first thing I tried but I'm afraid the old clamp and backbow thing hasn't affected it.....still wants to go the other way when I engage the rod.....any more thoughts appreciated!!

[john r toothman]

it sounds to me like you may have a two-way truss rod installed upside down, so when you tighten it you may actually be loosening it. thats my guess good luck

[Tom Krebs]

Weird? You might want to post over here? http://gretschpages.com/

[David Connolly]

I've contacted Dan Duffy at the gretsch forum,will wait for his reply.....can anybody tell me how easy it would be to remove the trussrod from this guitar?Could it be done without having to remove fingerboard......through a fret?If so ,which fret???
Cheers.

[Tim Mace]

I would want to remove the fretboard to see how the neck was brought to its condition..But you know if it's a valuble item
a pro should do it.

[Donald A. Fortune]

Hi David-- I'm wondering if the original install at the factory was done rite... I made a neck for a bass guitar and put the truss rod in up side down and it made the neck work opposite of what it was suppose to , so I had to take the fret board off and turn the truss rod 180 degrees to make it work correctly. Just my 2 cents here, I might be all wet too...
peace,
Donald

[David Connolly]

Hi Donald,
Can't help thinking along the same lines....botched factory installation....but,,,still not 100% about it......kind of thing I would expect to see on a hand built job but not a factory....totally possible though.
Would like to get the rod out without removing fingerboard....muc too much wear and tear around the neck to try and emulate with finish touchup.Anybody have any idea bout where to find the end of the rod without removing fingerboard?

[Ry Charters]

Uh, that rod is buried in the neck. Find out what type of rod was put in those guitars. If its a Gibson style single action rod....there is no upside down possibility. It is 50 years old, so check carefully to see if it might have been repaired before. If the rod is functioning (even incorrect function), I'm 99% sure you won't be able to take it out. Removing the fretboard is the likely conclusion for this problem. If you've never done this before, don't make a vintage gretsch your first attempt. Or even your second attempt......

[David Connolly]

Yep...I've removed fingerboards before but not enough to be confident on this one....to emulate the worn cadillac green finish on the neck would be hell.....I find new finishes way easier to touchup....I think this one is out of my hands.

[Donald A. Fortune]

David - more than likely the truss rod has a channel that it sits in and is blind at one end so it cant be taken out without removing the fingerboard-- looks like this one is going to be a tuffy-- good luck and be safe.
Donald