adding a glued bridge to a flat top

[stephen jeffery]

Hi i'm new so beware of naievity and poor spelling. I have an old worco parlor i would like to add a bridge to to replace the floater for intonation purposes and to possibly lower the action. the belly is fractionally sunk. I thought of a spanish type that wouldn't need drilling. what's involved please?

steve

perhaps the following photos help

[stephen jeffery]

what is a bridge doctor?

[Ron Frazier]

the bridge doctor is a fixture inside the guitar screwed to the the under side of the bridge that takes the torke off the bridge. Look in the Stu Mac catalog for a good look at one.

Ron

[Tom Krebs]

"What would you recommend as a simple answer?"

I would give up on the idea of low action. Just play it for what it can give. Maybe adjust/replace the current bridge if you want better intonation?

[stephen jeffery]

this is probably the way to go. thanks

[Ned Knepp]

Stephen,
The strip of wood you found is what I though would be there. The problems is that this are was only supposed to handle the down force generated by the strings, not the twisting of a fixed bridge. You might be able to reinforce the reinforcement or remove the strip and replace it with a slightly stronger one. It's a balancing act. Too weak and the top keeps moving, too strong and the top does't move enough to produce a good sound. You checked what type of bracing but did you check for loose braces? Use something thin but stiff enough that try slipping it under the braces. You shouldn't be able to slip anything under any of the braces. If you can, that needs to be reglued and clamped.

It is possible that Ron's suggestion may work. A bridge doctor would require a hole through the bridge and the top to mount it. It's basically a gadget that 's designed to hang under the bridge, inside the guitar, with an adjustable wooden rod that presses against the tail block to keep the bridge from rolling. I've never heard of one being used with a classical through bridge but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work as long as the hole was positioned carefully.

Actually, Tom brings up a good point. Just how much do you want to put into this. The simple answer is to adjust as best you can and enjoy it as long as possible. Looking at the picture, it doesn't appear to be a very expensive guitar and and it may be pretty easy to exceed it's value once you start modifying it, particularly if you are paying shipping to Greece,

I know from experience that you can't just put some glue on a fixed bridge and push it down on the top of the guitar. You will probably need to mark the bridge position on the top then carefully scrape away the finish in that area then you will need to clamp it in place with a cauld inside the guitar and on top of the bridge, while making sure that the bridge is exactly where you want it to be. If you don't do these thing there is a very good chance that the bridge will pull loose fairly quickly. Of course, this all assumes that you have figured out how to reinforce the top.

Please understand, I'm not trying to scare you out of doing it, I am trying to point out thing you may not be aware of. As I said, I'm not crazy about tailpieces on flat top and I would be pretty tempted to try a classical bridge and a JLD bridge doctor if this were mine but there isn't any easy way back to the preset configuration if it turns out bad and the resale value, such as it may be, will probably be gone with these mods. Have you ever wanted to learn to play slid guitar? This may be the time to consider it.

BTW, just search for JLD Systems and you will find some pictures and documentation on the JLD site.

Ned

[stephen jeffery]

Hi Ned, Thanks for your valuable input. I'm forgetting about resales and value etc. The guitar is a welcome addition to my couch. I have all the gig worthy guitars i need - slide or otherwise - but i like puzzles and messing with guitars and this is great to play while watching soccer on TV.

So no quick fix. Perhaps if i could get the dip out of the top and get my bridge set right I'd call it a day and enjoy it. The spanish bridge is on the way from stew mac so if i can't resolve things by the time it arrives i might consider the bridge doc option. The braces are all ok by the way.

I'll get on a JLD system search and see what i might be letting myself in for.

thanks

steve

[stephen jeffery]

Emm, I'm almost embarrassed to say that most problems of intonation etc have been solved by sliding the bridge - mounted on a piece of p100 grit paper to the tail. bits and pieces have been ordered , but action - after a little filing - and everything seem to have been resolved.

[Tim Mace]

Hmmmm,,,maybe a neck angle adjustment would be in order if you like working on instruments.If the neck is almost level w/the you could increase the angle back or down giving you more saddle height and lower action possibilities.How many pics can you show ?neck angle from side and inside box?Where was the guitar made? Also you could buy a Brekke bridge(adj). Flatten it to accomodate your guitar.I really like those bridges.They're made for archtop mandos but a parlor guitar might be a good experiment
for one.Check 'em out on the Weber site.

[Ned Knepp]

Tim,
Those "Brekke" bridges look pretty "neat". I may try one some time but I doubt if it is long enough for a guitar plus the saddle is cut for four courses of two strings. I think it would take a lot of modification to fit one to a flat top guitar. To me it would probably be easier to start from scratch . On the other hand It might be kind of cool to get free of those vibration robbing thumb wheels on my mandolin.

Ned

[Tim Mace]

I like the wood on wood aspect of the Brekke and the adjuster is cool.No more leaning tower
of steel above the bridge.Improves tone too.I think it could be modified to work on a small 6
string or make a solid 1 piece and get rid of the strings across a fret on the bridge look.The
Brekke comes w/ an extra saddle too! They used to make a flat top bridge but no longer me
thinks.I guess I could be wrong...if the string span fits I'd go for it.You would have to compensate the saddle from scratch!

[Ned Knepp]

The idea sort of reminds me of a bridge that Jimmy D' Aquisto came up with that uses a a long wedge to adjust the saddle height. I like the idea of a solid bridge that's adjustable. It seems like the best of both worlds and I've always thought the old Gibson solid bridges sounded best on their mandolins.

I did some research on this on the Internet a couple of years ago and found that there are several different designs for archtop instrument bridges out there. The one on the Webber site is the first one that I've seen with wedges on both sides of the saddle. It's a cool idea but I have been wondering for a while why we need so much adjustment anyway. It's not as if well made archtop instruments need more adjustment than flat top instruments. I haven't adjusted the saddle height on my mandolin in years. It certainly makes it easier to setup the instrument but a solid bridge would have worked just fine once that was done.

When I did that research on the Internet, some of the solid bridges that I found are maple with an ebony cap for the saddle. The maple portion is designed to be as light as possible while maintaining rigidity. A block of hard maple, a drill press and a band saw resulted in a bag full of partially formed blanks but I haven't got around to experimenting with them. Just too many other projects.

I'm in the process of rebuilding an old Archtop guitar right now. Maybe I can find the time to play with the bridge on that.

Ned

[stephen jeffery]

just checked out the bridge doctor. can i just buy the screw mount version and not the brass pin one as well which stewmac offer? doesn't sound too much to try out.