Hide Glue Temperature

[Doug Collins]

I'm using Hide Glue for the first time and I have a feeling I might not be getting it hot enough. Is the water temperature supposed to be 140 degrees, or is the glue supposed to be that hot? What are the ramifications of using the glue too hot?

Thanks,

Doug Collins

[Jim Bancroft]

I don't use a glue pot, but instead a small sauce pan about 1/3 full of water, next sit the container with the glue mixture in and heat it up. I do this on my kitchen stove and probably get everything to 150 degrees. I've been doing it so long that I don't use a thermometer, just look at what the water is doing.

Another important thing is to make the glue mixture thin or watery. As long as it is slippery between your fingers it is perfect. Then warm parts to be glued. That's pretty much it in a nut shell. In other words, my simple explanation of hide glue usage.

Jim

[Doug Collins]

Jim,

That's the method I am using too. I do have thermometer and I am finding the water needs to be way hotter than 140 degree to get the glue to a consistency of honey. Now I tend to take everything Frank Ford says as gospel and in his tutorial on this method, he clearly shows the thermometer in the water as he talks about 140 degrees.

When I measure the glue temperature with the water at 140 degree, it is around 120 degrees. When the temperature of the glue reaches 140 degrees, things seem about right. But you says the glue should be slippery between your fingers. I think if it was 140 degrees that would be a little hot on the fingers.

The good news is, all my braces that were glued (at what ever temperature it may have been) seem to be holding strong. Is there a good way of testing them other than giving them a good wiggle, or is time the only test?

Thanks for your reply,

Doug Collins

[Frank Ford]

HIde glue is fairly stout stuff, and it can take a fair bit of abuse. According to the literature, the temperature should not exceed 145 or so, but that's presuming the glue will be heated all day in factory use, and reheated the next day.

I believe the issue with temperature is a matter of temperature AND time. So, there's no damage done by heating the glue to boiling for a few seconds in the microwave if it isn't heated long or kept heated. That makes life a lot easier for me. I just take a bit out of the fridge, heat it, use it, and toss the leftovers.

IF you keep it under heat all day, it's a good idea to keep the temperature down to 140 - that's the glue temp of course.

[Doug Collins]

Thanks Frank, that's the clarification I needed.

One thing I did notice is that when the temperature is hotter, the glue tends to get thicker. I guess that's because the water is evaporating out of it.

And thanks again for providing this forum and for contributing regularly as well.

Thanks,

Doug Collins

[Greg Mirken]

Doug, what ratio are you mixing your glue? It should be almost like water (well, more like milk) at the temperature you're using it at. Much thinner than, say, Titebond.

Greg

[Doug Collins]

Really? Mine is no where near watery and I've had the heat way over 140. I'm mixing it three parts dry glue to two parts water (as per the instructions that came with it).

Do you think brand makes a difference? I got this stuff from Lee Valley (the only place I could find it locally). It's 260 Bloom strength - a little strong, but thier only other choice was 150 - which I thought might be a little weak.

Thanks for your help,

Doug Collins

[Jim Bancroft]

Yes, it has to be watery thin, or it's impossible to work with(sets up too fast, ect.)
The stuff I use comes from Stewart McDonald. Not sure the strength, but it has worked fine for the many years I've used it.

I don't measure the glue to water ratio. This is what I do.
Take a glass baby food jar, put in about 1 tsp of glue flakes, next go to water tap, slowly add some water(maybe about 1/4 of the baby food, I'm really not that concerned about how much) Next place in a sauce pan with water and heat, stir occasionaly, once the glue is disolved and ready to use I check the consistency, too thin I add a little more glue, too thick I add a little more water. I don't measure anything. Just make sure it is still slippery between your fingers, and no, it's not so hot you'll get burned, just dip some out with the stir stick.
Can't stress the importance to,"MAKE SURE THE GLUE IS WATERY THIN, YET SLIIPPERY BETWEEN YOUR FINGERS". I'ts strange people think glue has to be thick, and that is where most people make a mistake with it's use. I made that mistake myself when I first used it.

Hide glue use is not all that complicated.

Jim

[Mike Mancini]

Jim,
FYI, last year I emailed the folks that make H.Belhen Master hide glue (sold by StewMac) and they told me that it's 164 gm strength.
It says to mix equal weights of glue and water (not by volume). Since I dont have a scale that accurate, I measured out 1 lb of the glue and it took up 22 oz of volume. So 22 oz (vol) of glue weighs 16 oz. Since a pint weighs a pound and is 16 oz by volume, I just mix 22/16= 1.375 oz. glue (vol) per 1 oz water to get equal mix by weight.
I also put my thermometer into the glue.
Mike

[Greg Mirken]

Wow, I use more like 2 parts by weight of water to 1 part glue. And I add water as the glue sits in the water bath and evaporates, so I really judge as much by consistency as anything.

Greg

[Doug Collins]

That's better! I tried a 1 to 1 ratio and it is much more manageable. I think it could stand even more water. Clearly the instruction that came with the glue is wrong.

Somehow I was under the impression that you couldn't add extra water once you were underway. I was throwing glue away and starting over when it got too tight.

Thank you everyone for all your help.

Doug Collins

[Doug Collins]

Jim,

Is the temperature of the glue 140 degrees?

Thanks,

Doug Collins

[Jim Bancroft]

I used to use a thermometer, but now all I do is look at the water in the sauce pan. When it starts forming pin size bubbles on the sides and bottom of the pan, it's hot enough. I would guess 140 to 150 degrees is about right.

Basically with hot hide glue you need it hot enough and thin enough. Yes, you can add glue granules or water whenever needed.

Good cooks don't use recipes. Using hide glue is about the same.

Jim