Truss rod pushed down into the guitar neck

[Henry Ramsey]

Hello, I have a Oscar-schmidt (by washburn) OE30 SHB guitar with a stripped truss rod nut and the truss rod has somehow moved further into the neck whilst trying to use a tool to grab the stripped out nut.  

 

Anyone here have a clue as to why a truss rod would be able to move into the neck like this?  I think the stripped nut is not hard thing to fix but the rod seems to be more problematic.   Am I right will I have to have someone take the fretboard off to fix this issue?

 

I posted the best picture I could get of the nut in it's current position.  The black area by the nut is where it used to be.  It's moved about 1/2" into the rod cavity from where it should be.

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

I guess it's not a compression rod, but a rod+aluminum U shaped bar (my English skills are limited to describe it). It doesn't have to be secured to work, it's an autonomous (is that correct English?) part that is not glued or tied to the neck's trussrod channel.

You have to find a way to get it out and swap it for a new rod. Sometimes, when I have troubles with that kind of neck, I remove the first fret, saw through the fingerboard in the fret's slot and after un-glueing any binding in that area, I unglue the fingerboard from nut to first fret. It gives me easy acces to the nut, in an area that will be hidden by the fingerboard so I can work my way without fearing making a scratch.

[Henry Ramsey]

Thank you. 

 

I believe you could be right about the U-shaped rod aluminum plus the rod.   Yes, autonomous is the right word or close enough.

I have seen this type refered as a Martin-style truss rod for their use in Martin guitars.

They are sold here in the US by Stewart MacDonald.

 

It sounds like you're talking about a time consuming task.  

Does this usually take long for an experienced person to do with the correct tools?  

I have little money, this guitar is now 7 years old and only cost $250 new.  

I don't want to spend more than it's worth for repairs which can happen in a flash when being billed by the hour.

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

I really can't tell much more than previously. It all depends on your succeeding in getting the trussrod back to its place to remove and replace the nut. In that kind of case, I warn the customer that I have to make tries to get it back, charging a fixed amount of time he's agreeing with, then depending on the results of the tries, I offer different options for the repair.

[Henry Ramsey]

OK.  You sound like you know what you are speaking of.  I wish you were local to do this work.

 

Is it possible that the rod might be pulled back into place?  What about a something like a screw extractor that is reverse-threaded to remove stripped screws.  If one could get a tool like that into the nut and use it for leverage to pull on would that perhaps work to pull the rod and the nut back to it's proper position so it could be removed by normal means?

[Henry Ramsey]

I got the truss rod nut out with a screw extractor.  Hooray!

The truss rod also pulled into proper position whilst I had the extractor in place.

Now can someone tell me what type it is and where to get an appropriate replacment?

It somewhat resembles the "bullet" nut sold by Stewart-Mac.  But this one isn't tapered like a bullet.

Should I just take it to a tech for this part now that the labor intensive part is done?  

It should be easy to thread on a new nut right?

 

I posted some photos but my camera keeps blurring them without the flash or whiting out with it.

Sorry they're awful.

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

Good job! The screw extractor is one of the tries I usually make, but it does not always succeed.

Use a vernier caliper to determine if it's a metric or imperial nut, and which diameter it has. Buy the matching nut. Bullet are usually imperial, I think you might have a metric one.

[Henry Ramsey]

You are correct. This nut might very well be metric.  

The StewMac fender bullet truss nut says it's 1"x11/32, designed for use w/a 1/8" allen wrench.

 

My caliper measures the outside of my truss nut to be 0.301" or 20/64" which is about 7.6mm.

 

So the Fender one is too fat by a fractional amount and will likely not fit into the truss rod cavity.

They don't carry any other nuts that use an allen wrench.

If I switch to one that uses a hex wrench I might not be able to get the wrench inside the truss rod

opening to adjust the rod.

 

SO where do I get a metric truss rod nut?

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

I'm not sure to understand : you don't have to measure the outside of the nut, but the ouside diameter of the trussrod's shaft (the male "screw" part). if it's very near (say +0/-0.1mm) 4mm or 5mm, it's a metric one.

[Henry Ramsey]

I cannot get the caliper into the neck far enough to measure the threads on the rod.  

That's the only thing I cannot measure.   The inside of the nut on the threaded side though is just a hair over 4mm. Something 10.5/64 which is about 0.164" and is closest to 4.168mm.

I can thread the nut onto a tester at a hardware store and see what size it is for certain.  Standard truss rods are mostly 10/32 threads so far as I have seen. Hopefully it is standard size too.  

 

The truss rod pocket is 24/64 (0.375") wide so the barrel nut from stewart macdonald will fit ok after all.  If the rod is threaded imperial then that nut might work after all too.

I put a query about the truss rod nut size into the Oscar-Schmidt customer service dept.

Hopefully they will be able to tell me the details I cannot measure.  

They're supposed to respond in 12-24 hours so I'll see how long they really take.

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

4.2mm is the nominal diameter for the inside of a M5 nut. You need a 5mm nut. That should solve your problem. Allparts should have that kind of parts in the USA. That's a fairly standard diamter for that kind of trussrod. You will need a metric 4 hex key.

[Henry Ramsey]

Forget what I said abut the inside measurments.  I must be reading it wrong or I wrote the conversion wrong.

I found that the threads are 10/32 by going to a hardware store and putting the nut onto their testers.    I'm not sure if they had an M5 sample but I tried the nut on all the metric sizes and it either was too small or did not thread easily.  Assuming they have m5,m6 etc this didn't fit on the m5 and work.

It would not turn onto any of the metric sizes, but turned properly on the 10/32 size.  That means the 10/32 Fender bullet type nut will fill the threads.

Oscar-schmidt customer service told me they don't make or sell the the nut for this guitar anymore.   They also said the nut size is metric.  That might be true but would a metric nut thread easily onto 10/32 threads?  Are they close enough to do that?Somehow I suspect they meant the nut was a 4mm allen wrench but didn't tell me the thread size.

 

I'm going to order a fender bullet nut and hope that this time it's correct.

Allparts doesn't have any metric sizes btw.  Thier selection is the same as Stewart Macdonald.   I wish someone had them both so I could buy one of each instead of buying....waiting.... and possibly doing that twice.

Would it be possible to just cross-slot this nut using a dremel tool and then be able to use a flat screw driver with it?  Or would the force being exerted on the nut whilst tightening it cause it to break?   I may try that until I get the new nut.

[Ned Knepp]

I don't think I would try cross slotting it. If you break it off an ez -out won't remove it again. I'd wait for the correct nut.

 

One option I would try is to use a 10/32 tap on the end of the rod. If it's loose the thread size is too small but if it is just a hair too large it should be possible to re-thread the end of the rod to fit the new nut. It would have the added benefit of cleaning up the threads on the end of the rod.