Paco Marin Classical Guitars/Screwed Up And Used Lemon Oil

[Andrew Krzywonski]

Man, 47 and still making stupid mistakes!! Was not thinking when I was working on this Paco Marin Classical, reached for some Kyser/Lemon Oil, wiped it on and it left a milky finish, is there any hope to bring back, can I use a wood cleaner? Can someone help me out, forgot about the hand rubbed process, man I feel like crap!!

And I have asked three people if they have heard of a Paco Marin Mod 24!

Thanks
I must have brain damage

[Christian Johnson]

Try contacting Cyndy Burton through the Guild of American Luthiers. She's an expert at french polish. She moderates a forum on their site.

[Andrew Krzywonski]

Gentleman - thank you for all of your advice. I'm kicking myself hourly right now! Last question - know of anyone in San Antonio who knows this FP method? I'm good at refinishing but I'd hate to try this by myself?

[Robert Filippi]

Andrew,
Listen to Bob Webster; his advice is best. I would advise against using tung oil as it will interfere with the FP repair.
Ronald Fernandez has an excellent dvd out on the subject. Get it, practice it, follow it . Stick to French polishing as the repair technique. Good Luck. Let us know how it turns out.
Robert

[Bob Webster]

The absolute right guy is in your neighborhood. Contact Tom Blackshear at:[e-mail]; his homepage is http://tguitars.home.texas.net/index.htm. He'll know exactly how to deal with it. You just fell in the outhouse and can come out smelling like a rose.

Cheers,
Bob

[Andrew Krzywonski]

Thank You for all your help, the Glaze Number 7 is good, but did not get into this finish, This is a very nice guitar and I know that this all happened for a good reason, who knows. I emailed Tom B. about this guitar.

Mr. Webster, its people like yourself that make a difference, most people would maybe be rude and not even give me the time of day, Thank You Sir !!

[Bob Webster]

Thanks so much for the very kind words, Andrew. I do hope Tom has the time and inclination to do the work, or at least to provide more guidance near at hand. I know he's scaled back his building substantially in the last couple of years. As for the No. 7. it's really just intended as a cleaner to remove stuff like left over oil lubricant at the end of the FP procedure, so I'm not surprised that it had little effect on the haze. Best of luck and keep us posted as things progress.

Cheers,
Bob

[Jim Bancroft]

I'm not expert on this but what about spraying a fine mist of straight alcohol or shellac instead of french polishing. With spraying you won't have the problem of removing any of the existing finish, as can happen with french polishing, especially if you don't have much french polish experience.

I recently did some finish repairs to a 1926 Martin. The original finish was shellac. I tried the french polish method, but because of lack of experience, I was making the finish worse. So I just sprayed the shellac on instead and buffed it out. It turned out great.
Just my thought's
Jim

[Ned Knepp]

If this were mine to do, I think that before I did anything else, I would steal one of Mr. Ford's ideas and dip a Q-tip in alcohol then carefully test a small out of the way spot by touching it lightly to the surface and looking for any change.

Just a thought.

Ned

[Bob Webster]

You know, Ned, that on a $6-8000 investment level guitar by a maker like Paco Marin, there just isn't a "small out of the way spot" that you can go to that's going to be okay to mess up. The best approach to knowing exactly what the finish is would be to actually contact the builder and simply ask. I'm sure that Paco would be highly motivated to ensure that no one screws up one of his finish jobs because the mess could just as easily be attributed to him.

Bob

[Ned Knepp]

Bob,
I would normally agree completely with what you said but the finish is already "messed up" and any damage my suggestion would do is very, very small, if it would exists at all. I'm not talking about taking a swipe at the finish, I'm talking about the touch of a q-tip. If it's not shellac, the little bit of alcohol involved will do nothing. I am aware that this may leave a small mark in shellac, that is part of the point, but the information that this would give is not really available in any other way that I can think of because it is also important to know if alcohol will help with that blush. What I proposed would help determine if a bit of French Polishing is the course of action to follow.

Every instrument has places that are less noticeable than others, the top of the head, under an end pin, perhaps an area of the neck that is already showing a bit of wear from handling. It's not really that hard to find a place to test as I suggested. If it works, the french polish will fix any blemish caused by my approach. If it doesn't work, there are much bigger issues than a small blemish caused by a bit of solvent and a few cotton fibers.

Whether or not Mr. Blackshear responds and knows the remedy, it seemed safe to assume that Andrew is going to be the one doing the work. If it were me, I would want as much information as I could get before jumping in. If I were doing it, I would want to know if alcohol positively affects the haze before I started wiping it on and I believe the value of the instrument is all the more reason for this cautious approach. It's not my decision to make and I'm glad it isn't but this is information I would want and something I would consider doing if it were my decision.

Ned

[Bob Webster]

Hi, Ned. Like I said, the most positive way of knowing what's on the guitar is to contact Paco. As for whether or not alcohol is going to help the haze, as always, it's best to proceed very conservatively. The problem with leaving a small mark in the shellac is that it then needs to be removed. I promise you I'm not trying to be an obstinate old fart niggler here, but the treatment I have in mind would clear the haze without helping the blemish much.

I've dealt with hazey FP finishes before and the following has worked like a champ but, for a whole guitar, it can be somewhat tedious.

Make an FP pad by wadding/folding up a 3" square piece of cheesecloth wrap it up in the same sized piece of old worn out t-shirt. Load the pad from the BACKSIDE of the wadding with 2-3 drops of alcohol only. The front of the pad should not feel wet, Start rubbing the surface over a limited area in straight strokes. You shouldn't see just a bit tailing of alcohol out the back side of the stroke. The purpose of this is to reintroduce alcohol into the finish without scrubbing off any finish or changing the surface texture. Stick with it on that one patch until you see progress but don't grind it (see below). As the finish takes on the alcohol (which could be very slow if the guitar is a few years old), you'll notice that it "fattens up" a bit. That's a good sign that you're getting it right; at that point take care not to stop the pad on the finish or you can leave a print on it. Just glide on and off. With a whole guitar, you just continue and repeat this until you're ready to puke from boredom.

The pad pressure should be fairly light. That helps prevent picking up the shellac and making streaky marks. The whole idea is to reintroduce alcohol into the finish virtually a breath at a time; the finish will then almagamate back into a clear glass state.

One could go faster by using 1/4 to 1/2lb cut shellac instead of alcohol and lubricate the pad with a distributed drop of olive oil but, even then, the chance of streaking is higher.

Bob

P.S. Glad it's not my job, too. We can sit back, kibbitz, and listen to poor Andrew sweat it out.

[Ned Knepp]

Bob,
That's pretty much the way I would try to handle it too once I determined that the alcohol would work. I'm just not as sure as you appear to be that this procedure will fix the blush. I've dealt with blush in shellac but not one that was caused by lemon oil. Perhaps you have see more of this than I have. If it were mine to do, I would feel much more secure with the procedure if I had already proven to myself that the alcohol would clear things up.

Actually, this is something I would hate to have to deal with. My family would probably have to scoop me up in a basket if this were mine.

Ned