I HAVE A MARTIN WITH A FISHMAN PICK UP AND THE TWO E STRINGS DONT WANT TO MAKE SOUND

[FRANK]

WHAT DO I DO ? ITS COMING IN TOMORROW AND I AM GETTING A HEAD START HERE BUT WHAT CAN YOU SEE THE TWO E STRINGS ARE QUIET OR NOT AS LOUD? WHAT MAY I RUN INTO ? HERE THE LAST TIME ON A DIFFERENT GUITAR THE SADDLE WAS TO TIGHT BUT I AM NOT SURE THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE ..

[Len Biglin]

HI paul , check the break angle of the strings over the saddle , assuming it's ok and there is some pressure down on the saddle, take off the strings and remove the saddle notice if it's too tight to vibrate? then get your best 6" rule and lay the saddle bottom edge on the rule edge , you will hopefully see a gap at each end , which means the E's are not getting good contact on the pickup, if so sand the bottom flat on a glass block or whatever u have.Otherwise look in the slot is the pickup damaged ? lift it out and check the bottom of the slot.If the top has a domed effect it may have pushed the bridge into a not-so-flat shape .If you still dont have an snswer substitute a good pickup, and lastly re-rout the slot.Len oh you can boost weak strings by applying a layer of masking tape on the saddle below the weak strings only , then if necessary two layers , sounds dodgy but it works when nothing else does !

[Tim Mace]

IMO those pu's suck neway....empty sounding. I'll settle for an under the soundboard mounted piezo disc neday.

[Michael P. Lemieux]

Hello
With the pickup in place, the saddle should be in the slot two thirds of the way. Something to think about.
They can be a pain. Good luck.

[Rob Mercure]

Paul, One tool that you might want to make beforehand is a scraper to remove material from the bridge's saddle slot just incase the bottom where the saddle or P/U seats. While materials may vary the one I've got I made about 20 years ago from broken seat spring from a 1967 Chevy pickup truck. It was a couple of loops of coil going into a staight piece of wire (around 12 gauge) of hardened and tempered spring steel - great material for a hand wood working tool. I gound a little hook with a flat end in the staight end and used the spring coils as a handle. The hook was ground to the width of the saddle slot and I could easily use it to flatten or taper saddle slots (could probably have even cut one with sufficient time and patience). Not that you've got a '67 Chevy P.U. in the back yard (or maybe you do) but I suspect that the seat springs from most type autos would do as well as those used in domestic furniture. But you could easily take a cheap Harbor Freight type file and make the scraper. The material source really isn't critical just as long as you can control the cut and it fits the saddle slot either full width like mine (several now) or somewhat narrower to allow use on more than one slot (but takes more work making sure that the whole bottom cross section is the same).

Rob

[Ron Frazier]

The first thing is while the guitar is strung up is I take a piece of hard wood and on the sound hole side of the saddle just tap with a hammer and drive the saddle to the back of the guitar. Some times this will work.
Try the ruler on the bottom of the saddle and see if it is straight. If it is. Their may be some dust of wood chips in the bottom of the slot . Scrape it not to remove wood and blow out any dust or chips in there.

I would check the fit of the saddle in the slot and if it is too tight scrape or sand the sides of the saddle to make it fit looser.

That should fix any problem you have.

Stu-Mac sells a jig for a router to regroove the saddle slat and is the only way to get the bottom of the slot dead flat

Good luck

Ron

[Jeffrey L. Suits]

http://www.museweb.com/ag/amp/zyla_method.html

[Russell Vance]

Paul, as a long time authorised Fishman installer I will direct you to the tech sheets on the website - but failing that, Len Biglins post is all inclusive and will work for both the old fashioned piezo Fishman transducer and the newer Matrix co-polymer type. The early piezos have all the vices of the breed and are suceptible to inbalance far more than the later Matrix/Prefix series which are far more forgiving.

Tims advice is useful if you are still riding a horse and using candles - the McIntyre Feather which is similar technology to the Matrix is my choice of soundboard mounted transducers and extremely versatile due to its low weight, adhesive film thickness and sensitivity - it is very forgiving of placement in difficult or small spaces (Churango/uke players note). Also, if you are using a pickup that reqires a modelling clay bed-in to work I suggest that we have lost the plot - how about we just fix the problem professionally and properly from the start or take it to someone who does. I'm not being precious here but there have to be some standards in the industry.
Rusty.

[Tim Mace]

I've never heard a ust I liked the sound of and basically don't like the thought of boring extra holes to
accomodate a bar which seems to be so unstable you keep loosenig /removing to get a good balance.
I know w/preamps & eq's you can improve the tones but I still like the disc and have some of the fllm type. Candles and horses sounds so romantic! And Carl is one of my lifelong buddies.Thanks for mentioning McIntyre. A great Luthier and technician..He refretted my D-28 w/ early PU install.Still sounds good to me.Horses ,candles,& feathers...mus' be a song in there somewhere.

[Rob Mercure]

I've never heard any piezo transducer that I thought sounded in any manner like an acoustic guitar in free air and rather than endlessly attempting to get the compromise to work well enough that I didn't shudder at the tone I installed Fishman Rare Earth II electromagnetic P/U in the soundhole and got on with life. The Fishman makes my Martin sound - to my ears - more like a good classic hollow body such as one of the original Epiphones so I'd rather have a good hollowbody acoustic simulation than the really poor flat top acoustic "golem" that piezo P/Us produce. And I can amplify the soundhole P/U quite a bit without sound change while the piezos just quack worse and worse the more you amplify them - Donal Duck would love it and now that I think of it a piezo equipped guitar would have made a great Disney sound effect .

Rob

[Tim Mace]

I agree that the final result of almost any acoustic PU is less than the pure unadulterated sound of the instrument but some quack some don't.......welcome to dizzywurl.
The "Mc'piezo in my D28 has never quacked or sounded like a hollow body to my ears.
Wunner why? I would try a Rare Earth pu but for sticking it in the hole..I've never been able to keep my life from getting on.......based on my PU's inadaquacy.

[Russell Vance]

Tim, the UST I'm referring to are the co-polymers that are about 45 thou thick and slot in under the saddle between it and the bridge. The Fishman Matrix is the industry standard- the systems you're talking are the old piezo slugs in a cradle inside the box or the clunkers that stick up under the bridge inside the box which were used (and still are in some guitars) years ago and had/have more problems than Brittney.

The other advantage of modern systems transducers is that they have an extended and relatively linear frequency response and can be EQ'd and further blended with on board condenser mikes to dial in a wide variety of tone - something I feel is absent from peizos.

I rate McIntyre and his feathers up there with the wheel in the invention scale. Also just great for Reso's.

Rusty.

[Tim Mace]

I go to Radio shack pay 3 bucks for a buzzer ,disassemble resolder with guitar cable and voila an oft times great sounding PU. If any of them were that great you wouldn't have to use a condensor mic to enhance the signal along w/EQ & Preamp. Carl once made a double bass PU using 6 pieso discs mounted inside a large triangular/guitar pick shape and it was awesome! I can't help it.Thanks a lot BarcusB.Cat Stevens even used a Barcus B on his early Ovation! I just like to hear different opinions about these things.